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The House of the Spirits; Rosa the Beautiful 
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Post Re: The House of the Spirits; Rosa the Beautiful
I guess I posted this link in the wrong thread so I will try it here. Just found out that we can watch The House of the Spirits on line. Here's the link: http://youtu.be/lmKcIQ_hV0A

Wondering if any one has watched it.



Sun Nov 27, 2011 10:44 am
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Post Re: The House of the Spirits; Rosa the Beautiful
Thanks. Will take a look. But my net here really slow.


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Sun Nov 27, 2011 12:47 pm
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Post Re: The House of the Spirits; Rosa the Beautiful
I find the idea of Rosa being a mermaid intriguing. But I favour Clara, the young weisenheimer there with the psychic abilities.

I can understand, but certainly not condone, the favouritism of the priest. The beautiful one wouldn't be faulted for her magic. Clara is not the one with the beauty, so the priest condemns her.

Ahhhh ... maybe that's the main point of the whole chapter.



Thu Dec 08, 2011 8:41 am
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Post Re: The House of the Spirits; Rosa the Beautiful
Ohhhh ... thanks for posting the link to the movie on You Tube. That's not the first time I've found myself watching whole movies, piece by piece, there.

I just love the music in the intro to the movie.

From reading the chapter, I thought the pig was much larger than that.

I'm going to look forward to watching each part, after I read it.



Thu Dec 08, 2011 8:57 am
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Post Re: The House of the Spirits; Rosa the Beautiful
Damifino wrote:
Robert Tulip wrote:
Just like the infant Clara telling the church we are fucked if the stories about hell are lies, the death of Rosa from strychnine poisoning introduces a jarring note. People seek to create a beautiful dream, regardless of reality, but reality intrudes to point out that the dream is self-serving.


I had to read that a couple times in the book. Kept thinking I was reading it wrong. Thought it should of said if the stories about hell are "true" we are all F'd.


Yes, its pretty weird. But it makes sense if you consider it further. If it turns out that the church has practiced a massive fraud about hell, then the basis of social stability is destroyed. The rich man in his castle and the poor man at the gate are sustained in their position by acceptance of a divine hierarchy, with hell as the threat for those who disrupt tradition.

So the infant prophet Clara is telling the priest and the whole church that when their lies are exposed, the social fabric will collapse, as happened in Chile with the rise of communism.

Revolutionary civil war is bad. The prophet Clara sees it coming, precisely because the stories about hell are lies. But no one takes her seriously, like Cassandra.

I don't think Allende gives any credence to the stories about hell, so the option that these stories are true is not real. But she can see the conflict coming due to the peddling of lies by the church, feeding the fury of the poor.


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Fri Dec 09, 2011 5:34 am
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Post Re: The House of the Spirits; Rosa the Beautiful
Wannett914 said ...

quote

. . . why wasn't there any religious judgment about Rosa being a magical creature?

unquote


Ummmm ... exactly what I thought of. I was kinda taken aback when I read all that
in the beginning. Found it helpful to go find the movie, which is on U Tube in full.

...............................



Fri Dec 16, 2011 8:25 am
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Post Re: The House of the Spirits; Rosa the Beautiful
Robert Tulip said ...

quote

. . . perhaps the men who fall in love with her imagine she is a mermaid because of her green hair

unquote


I wonder if anyone's actually been born with green hair?



Fri Dec 16, 2011 8:27 am
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Post Re: The House of the Spirits; Rosa the Beautiful
My thoughts, in general ... Barrabas - I was hoping to see something in the movie seens of Barrabas, but never did. Maybe when I look them over again this morning (which I intend to), I'll see him. There was one dog I saw, but it
was a normal size.

........................

I think, in this book, the reader has to be prepared to accept a lot of fantasy as being so. There is so much of the imaginary in the story throughout.

........................

I too, remember how fascinating it was to hear preachers on the topic of hellfire and brimstone. Our church, United Protestant, didn't do that so much, but I did visit other churches when kids invited me to their sunday school classes.

I remember a girl in my class - Juanita - her aunt had her caught up in this kinda' thing. She talked to me about it a lot. I got frightened and started worrying about going to hell. My mother stepped in and spoke to her mother.

Her mother was surprised to learn the girl's aunt was getting to her in this way.

I think we have to be careful about where children get their religious instruction.

.....................



Fri Dec 16, 2011 8:37 am
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Post Re: The House of the Spirits; Rosa the Beautiful
Robert said

So we find that the characters are parables.

I tend to think a lot of stories from the Bible are merely parables. I often argue biblical theory with people on that premise. The bible was written by men - I don't suspose women were actually allowed to write. And men were determined to have their way over women. They used Christ's preachings and twisted them to keep women down, just as much as the rich and powerful twist religious teachings to keep the poor in their place.

Like certain cultures we are concerned about in today's world.



Fri Dec 16, 2011 8:41 am
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Post Re: The House of the Spirits; Rosa the Beautiful
Kelstan said ...

... Esteban's professed "love" seems like little more than a desire to possess something beautiful.

Well, yeah ... but isn't love often like that? We can all look back and see it that way - sometimes we realize we were merely 'in love' with the idea of being 'in love'. Of having someone that others admired.

Or ... 'in love' with somebody who thought they were 'in love' with us. Sometimes that serves as being the actual attraction. Being infatuated over someone else's infatuation.

That's something I often hold forth on, when speaking with women who are years my junior - such as my daughters. And their friends.

In Esteban's world, did the men really give a damn if the woman was in love with him? It seemed enough for the man to 'desire' ... enough to make him entitled to a woman's hand.

That, and the possession of money and property.

Well, I guess I'm just repeating what you said there. Which shows ta' go ya ... I wholly agree.



Fri Dec 16, 2011 8:44 am
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Post Re: The House of the Spirits; Rosa the Beautiful
Robert said ...

He holds the idea of perfect Rosa for ever in his mind as his One True Love ....

That's the best kind, eh? That love stays in the mind unsullied - nobody can touch it. And if the person dies young, or just plain disappears from your life never to be seen again, that person never grows old in your mind.

Kinda hard for other lovers to compete - when a man's wife is growing old, as he is, he still sees that first love as being a teen or a 'twenty-something'.

Heh! Heh! It's an odd feeling when we actually run into that 'love' somewhere, and find he/she has grown, physically and personality-wise.

...................................



Fri Dec 16, 2011 8:47 am
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Post Re: The House of the Spirits; Rosa the Beautiful
Robert said

This attitude stores up a tectonic separation between fantasy and reality. Only reality can win in the end, albeit after major upheaval and conflict.

That's an interesting way to use the word 'tectonic'. I've never seen it used in that way before - thought it was just an geological thing - like
land, architecture, whatever. Not saying it's not correct - who cares if it isn't -it works when you say it that way - 'nough for me.



Fri Dec 16, 2011 8:48 am
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Post Re: The House of the Spirits; Rosa the Beautiful
Aqueda said ...

I found the scene when Clara told the priest off so hilarious! The disharmony in between the formal setting and the passion of the priest and an honest, straightforward observation of a child was great.

Yeah - I don't think that's fantasy - a child doesn't need to have psychic powers to come up with that observation. Many of us asked questions like that - made observations like that as children.

I, myself, didn't actually come out with the word 'fucked' ... wasn't fashionable to say it out loud back then anyway.

I was often told to be quiet when I came out with stuff like that. Once the Sunday School teacher asked us all to answer - who are the enemies of the church. I put up my hand and said 'the Communists!'

She was angry with me for saying such a thing.

I didn't fully understand what communism was anyway - I'd just heard another teacher say it.

................

I found it endearing that the guy was willing to sacrifice for Rosa and work hard to accommodate enough wealth to set up a life together at a decent level. The numerous letters he wrote are a proof it was not just pure lust.

Well, even in today's world it is preferable to have some wherewithal (savings, enough for a house, etc.) behind you, before marrying. We don't always have it, however, and marry anyway - then become disillusioned when we don't find what we were looking for in the way of material comforts.



Fri Dec 16, 2011 8:58 am
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Post Re: The House of the Spirits; Rosa the Beautiful
[quote="Robert Tulip"]On the very first page, Allende gives us some important clues.

Of Barrabas, she says "Barrabas arrived on a Holy Thursday. He was in a despicable cage, caked with his own excrement and urine, and had the lost look of a hapless, utterly defenseless prisoner; but the regal carriage of his head and the size of his frame bespoke the legendary giant he would become. It was a bland autumnal day that gave no hint of the events that the child would record."

Y'know when I read that, I actually got the impression that Barrabas was an ape.

I want to talk more about Uncle Marcos and his magic books.

That is intriguing, I agree.



Fri Dec 16, 2011 9:06 am
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Post Re: The House of the Spirits; Rosa the Beautiful
[quote="Robert Tulip"]

In fact, there are many women who would fail to be wooed by military marches and waltzes (one of each repeated) played on a rusty box adorned by a fake ship’s smokestack, to the accompaniment of a shrieking Amazon parrot who had learned Spanish as a second tongue.

Heh! Heh! I would fail to be wooed - I'd be inclined to call the cops at all that racket outside my window - gimme a good ole violin serenade any day - ha ha!



Fri Dec 16, 2011 9:15 am
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