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Frank 013
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72 virgins

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AsanaI have done a little digging on the 72 virgin stories and this is what I found. I thought you might be interested.You are correct nothing in the Koran specifically states that the faithful are allotted 72 virgins apiece. But there are other writings attributed to Muhammad called the Hadith, these are traditional sayings traced with varying degrees of credibility to Muhammad. In the collection known as the Sunan al-Tirmidhi it states, "The least (reward) for the people of Heaven is 80,000 servants and 72 wives, over which stands a dome of pearls, aquamarine and ruby." You will no doubt say that this is not cannon because it does not come from the Koran. So let's return to the Koran, and see what we can find there. Even if we leave out the racy detail and make allowances for metaphor, (which you seem to think is ok when reading religious text) you have to admit that Islamic heaven is a pretty happening place, with an emphasis on physical pleasures. The provision of virgins in indeterminate quantities is alluded to at numerous points, and you know they're not just there to wash your feet. The thing that I find most disturbing it that you're allowed to enjoy things the Koran explicitly denies you on earth, such as alcohol, and you won't even get sick. "Wine . . . delicious to those who drink it . . . will neither dull their senses nor they will become drunk."To me, this idea is somewhat dangerous. This means that the desire for these things is ok but damnable on earth, but a reward in heaven. If we were to extrapolate from this idea even things like homosexuality which is currently seen as sinful behavior by the Muslim community, might be just fine in the afterlife; hence the beautiful boy servants.Furthermore, the whole thing is skewed toward the male idea of a good time. Still, I have to admit, heaven as Party Central sure beats the Christian idea of angels with harps. Later Edited by: Frank 013 at: 10/28/06 12:33 pm
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Re: Asana's now spewing hatred

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Quote:Homosexuality is a choice and therefore it is a sin. You can only commit a sin if it is a choice.What scientific evidence do you have that supports your belief that homosexuality is a choice? Please do not cite the Bible. I'm asking for scientific evidence, so don't cite religious sources. The fact is you're dead wrong. There is absolutely no scientific evidence that animals consciously pick who or what they are attracted to. Does the heterosexual male decide to lust after females? In order for your crazy religious belief to hold water you'd need to show me how both heterosexual AND homosexual humans consciously decide upon who and what they are attracted. Quote:All men who molest boys are Gay and All women who molest girls are Gay.Again, and like usual, you are wrong. This seems to be a trend. You're wrong more frequently than anyone else that has ever posted on our site. We should think up some sort of award for you.First of all there aren't two distinct camps when it comes to human sexuality. You seem to believe there are heterosexuals and homosexuals. But science shows us that human sexuality is more of a spectrum where we all fall somewhere along the line between homo- and heterosexuality. Some people label themselves as bisexual where others consider themselves as asexual. And plenty of people shift back and forth along this spectrum at different times throughout their lives.In addition to lying somewhere along this spectrum we now have to address the intensity of each persons sexual drive. Sexual intensity or drive isn't measured on the same spectrum. There are heter- and homosexuals with little to no sexual drive. And then there are bisexuals that are walking hormones where the slightest breeze arouses them.The male pedophile that molests little boys may have zero interest in adult males. They are exclusively attracted to adult females. What that pedophile finds attractive about the little boy is their vulnerability, inability to reject them, or perhaps the situation triggers memories of their own childhood sexual cravings or experiences. The adult male pedophile that molests little boys may simply be an opportunist. Adults are more protective of their little girls, so there is a higher probability that that adult male will be trusted to be left alone with the little boy than with a little girl. So the probability is higher that the pedophile will molest a little boy - simply because the chance presents itself more frequently. The again he might be gayer than Elton John. But the point is that life is not so simple or cut and dry. This is one of the many problems I have with fundies. They want to believe that everything is black and white. Either you are gay or straight. Killing is always wrong. Abortion is killing, therefore it is wrong. Fundies don't like to think, so they defer that process over to the Bible or the Koran or perhaps the elders at their Kingdom Hall.I think Nick is on to something here. He said...Quote:This goes with the thinking that all blacks are sub-human and should be slaves...Do you agree with that piece of ignorance too Asana...something tells me you do not.Asana, you do realize that our prisons are filled with a disproportionate percentage of blacks? Obviously, black people are less ethical and socially conscious. Blacks are the ones killing, robbing and raping. So blacks are less Christian-like. Blacks are the ones spitting on the word of God. Blacks are the ones committing the greatest sins against Allah. Whites are clearly ethically and morally superior. You do agree I hope. Don't you?Oh wait...you're black. Shit. Let's hear all the rationalizations now. Edited by: Chris OConnor  at: 10/29/06 11:36 am
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Re: Asana's now spewing hatred

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But hopefully he just sees the stupidity of both arguments instead of trying to rationalize.I do not think it will happen.Mr. P. Mr. P's place. I warned you!!!Mr. P's Bookshelf.The one thing of which I am positive is that there is much of which to be negative - Mr. P.The pain in hell has two sides. The kind you can touch with your hand; the kind you can feel in your heart...Scorsese's "Mean Streets"I came to kick ass and chew Bubble Gum...and I am all out of Bubble Gum - They Live, Roddy Piper
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Re: Asana's now spewing hatred

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Let's wait and see.
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Re: 72 virgins

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Quote:This goes with the thinking that all blacks are sub-human and should be slaves...Do you agree with that piece of ignorance too Asana...something tells me you do not.If it were true, I would go along with it. The problem you have there is that being black is not a choice although some sun bathers really give it their best shot to have nice dark skin. The other problem regarding blacks as being sub-human, all Humans are the descendants of black people so black people can not be sub-human although false scientist would rather make up monkey tales rather than say you came from Black Humans.
Asana Bodhitharta

Re: Asana's now spewing hatred

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Quote:Quote:--------------------------------------------------------------------------------All men who molest boys are Gay and All women who molest girls are Gay.--------------------------------------------------------------------------------I'm new here so haven't weighed in on the banning discussion. Personally, I felt that it wasn't really necessary because the forum is organized in a way that makes it easy to ignore certain people's posts and threads if you so choose. And since Asana's posts are not, thus far, so prolific as to be an encumbrance to the forums, I didn't think it necessary to ban him. However, Chris, I personally feel the above gives you every justification for banning, if you wish. Irishrosem,I think you are misunderstanding something here I am not saying All gay men molest boys and All gay women molest girlsI am saying All men who molest boys and All women who molest girls. How can you debate a fact.
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Re: 72 virgins

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As usual, he missed all the points we were making.I knew it was best to ignore...so I am going back to that.Mr. P. Mr. P's place. I warned you!!!Mr. P's Bookshelf.The one thing of which I am positive is that there is much of which to be negative - Mr. P.The pain in hell has two sides. The kind you can touch with your hand; the kind you can feel in your heart...Scorsese's "Mean Streets"I came to kick ass and chew Bubble Gum...and I am all out of Bubble Gum - They Live, Roddy Piper
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Frank 013
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Re: Asana's now spewing hatred

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Quote:I think you are misunderstanding something here I am not saying All gay men molest boys and All gay women molest girlswe are not misunderstanding you, your statement is completely wrong and not a fact, second pick up any book on human sexuality (aside from a religious one) any it is adequately explained. Also Chris's explanation if a fair take on the subject. Being gay is not a result of rearing nor is it a choice. Please do some research on the subjects that you plan on discussing before you start preaching. These last few posts are making you sound ignorant and bigoted. They may be standard church rhetoric but they are in fact not backed up by any scientific study fairly conducted. Later Edited by: Frank 013 at: 10/29/06 5:33 pm
Asana Bodhitharta

Re: Asana's now spewing hatred

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Quote:What scientific evidence do you have that supports your belief that homosexuality is a choice? Please do not cite the Bible. I'm asking for scientific evidence, so don't cite religious sources. When you act you choose to act, correct? I am not talking about attraction or hormones I am talking about acting on the feeling. Some people are agressive by nature, they might want to beat on everyone they see but as long as they control that urge a person can not call them one who assaults.Quote:The fact is you're dead wrong. There is absolutely no scientific evidence that animals consciously pick who or what they are attracted to. Does the heterosexual male decide to lust after females? In order for your crazy religious belief to hold water you'd need to show me how both heterosexual AND homosexual humans consciously decide upon who and what they are attracted.You seem to not understand that if a dog gets in heat and he humps a leg he is not exercising a choice. but if a person humps a leg and their sane then they exercised a choice.Quote:First of all there aren't two distinct camps when it comes to human sexuality. You seem to believe there are heterosexuals and homosexuals. But science shows us that human sexuality is more of a spectrum where we all fall somewhere along the line between homo- and heterosexuality. Some people label themselves as bisexual where others consider themselves as asexual. And plenty of people shift back and forth along this spectrum at different times throughout their lives.I wasn't commenting on what people feel inside but what they act on. You seem to be upset that I am saying that Homosexuality means you're Gay. There is a definite distinction between sleeping with one gender than the other or both genders. Quote:In addition to lying somewhere along this spectrum we now have to address the intensity of each persons sexual drive. Sexual intensity or drive isn't measured on the same spectrum. There are heter- and homosexuals with little to no sexual drive. And then there are bisexuals that are walking hormones where the slightest breeze arouses them.It is not the sex drive that is the problem it is what you do with it. Is it also okay that if a person is attracted to animals that they should indulge themselves there as well. Many people have sex with animals would you be backing these people as well, in general the animals don't mind so is it then okay. Do they have a choice regarding sleeping with animals or were they born that way?Quote:The male pedophile that molests little boys may have zero interest in adult males. They are exclusively attracted to adult females. What that pedophile finds attractive about the little boy is their vulnerability, inability to reject them, or perhaps the situation triggers memories of their own childhood sexual cravings or experiences. The adult male pedophile that molests little boys may simply be an opportunist. Adults are more protective of their little girls, so there is a higher probability that that adult male will be trusted to be left alone with the little boy than with a little girl. So the probability is higher that the pedophile will molest a little boy - simply because the chance presents itself more frequently. You are not really understanding my point, I am not saying that little boys are not safe around gay men. I am saying that a male that engages sexually with another male for any reason is a homosexual act. Isn't that true?Quote:Asana, you do realize that our prisons are filled with a disproportionate percentage of blacks? Obviously, black people are less ethical and socially conscious.Some but not all of the disproportianate number of blacks in prison were the result of a bias judicial system. However, there are also a disproportionate percentage of people with drug offences both black and white but that just means people are being arrested for being high and getting people high. Society as a whole is less ethical and socially concious. The truth is it is unethical to arrest people for getting high or getting other people of consenting age High.Quote:Blacks are the ones killing, robbing and raping. So blacks are less Christian-like.Whoever kills, robs and rapes are not Christian like. However soldiers and police are exempt from being killers as killing someone may be the result of their profession in the course of defending others. However some soldiers and police are cold blooded murderers, robbers and commit all matters of offence. They will be judged more harshly because they chose to make a commitment to justice and then they chose to violate the public trust.Quote:Blacks are the ones spitting on the word of God. Blacks are the ones committing the greatest sins against Allah. The greatest sins against Allah is to not believe in Him or to put others as partners with Him. He is Allah(The God) There is no god but He, The Everliving Supreme Being. There is none like Him(HU).Quote:Whites are clearly ethically and morally superior. You do agree I hope. Don't you?Only those people of any race that are pious are ethically and morally superior.
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Frank 013
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Re: Asana's now spewing hatred

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Quote:I am saying that a male that engages sexually with another male for any reason is a homosexual act. Isn't that true?Yes, that statement is true but it fails to back up what you were saying earlier.Engaging in a homosexual act does not automatically make a person homosexual. In prison for example many straight men will engage in homosexual acts simply for the release of the sexual pressure, and then there is also experimentation. There are a host of other reasons why someone might engage in a homosexual act without being homosexual.Again you have lumped them all together when this is definitely not the case.Chris mentioned a grey area, you seem to like to leave it out.Quote:The greatest sins against Allah is to not believe in Him or to put others as partners with Him.Why? Why is non belief such a horrible sin? It hurts no one, it causes no crime, if a god is all knowing and compassionate why would he not be able to dismiss this one little item? especially since god refuses to show any evidence of his existence.If god created me he knew from the start that only certain logical tangible arguments will sway me. He must also have known that he has failed to put that evidence forward. So before I was ever born he knew that I would not believe he existed. If this is a sin it is of gods making.This is not a choice any more that homosexuality is a choice. I grew up with the definition of a car having a certain defination, I cannot just change that definition and believe it. If you suddenly pointed to a car and said it was a kangaroo I could not believe it. This is not a choice this is a reaction to the contradictory evidence. The same is true when you point to a god. Its not there, I can't see it, can't touch it, can't feel it, can't measure it with instrumentation, the books that assert his existence are known to be flawed and many of the stories within are bad copies of older pagan mythology. There is not a single shred of evidence to support your claim. Yet I am expected to just accept that there is something there. I simply cannot do that.Again this is not a choice; it is a reaction to your lack of evidence.Oh, I almost forgot, because I simply can't accept the illogical I am doomed to hell by the same entity that supposedly created me this way. now that's compassion for ya!Later
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