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The Coup against Donald Trump

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KindaSkolarly

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Re: The Coup against Donald Trump

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Clearing out bookmarks. These relate to the Spygate coup against Trump:

VIDEO: Jeanine Pirro’s Opening Statement: Predicts Obama’s Downfall as They All Turn Against Him
investmentwatchblog.com/video-jeanine-p ... ainst-him/

Joe di Genova: Barack Obama Knew James Comey Was Going to Blackmail the incoming President
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VT2kR9O ... e=youtu.be

FBI texts: Obama 'wants to know everything we're doing'
nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/fbi- ... ng-n845531

Trump Coup Biggest Violation of Constitution in History – Former CIA Officer
President Trump says the Deep State tried and failed to remove him from office in a coup. Former CIA Officer and whistleblower Kevin Shipp says the attempted coup on Trump was a global conspiracy. Shipp explains, “Yes, this is a coup. This is the most shocking violation of the Constitution and criminal activity in the history, not just of America, but of a western government. Much of this rises to the level of treason. People need to understand how shocking this is. It was a clear conspiracy. There will be arrests and indictments without question. . . . This was a coup. It was a conspiracy. It was criminal activity. These people need to be indicted, charged and need to be put in prison, and if they’re not, then our Constitution is nothing more than a sham. This was a coup against a duly elected President, and people need to understand how serious this is.”
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/51507.htm

The Russiagate Hoax and Uranium One
It was obvious the whole Russiagate thing was a complete Hoax a few days after Crowdstrike issued their ridiculous report in July 2016, which contained no evidence whatsoever of any hacking, except for some 4 year old Ukrainian malmare, freely available on the net, which anyone could have put on the DNC server (including Crowdstrike themselves as a False Flag / Red Herring).
investmentwatchblog.com/the-russiagate- ... anium-one/

We now understand some of the mechanics of what happened in the Intelligence services' coup against Trump. Under Obama the US intelligence community became politicized. Obama fired conservatives and replaced them with leftists, fired nationalists and replaced them with globalists. Because of their anti-American convictions, the heads of the intelligence agencies tried to prevent Trump (a nationalist) from gaining the White House, and then once he was there they tried to remove him by blatantly lying about him being a Russian spy.

It looks as if many people will go to jail because of the coup, and Obama could be impeached (yes, even FORMER presidents are subject to impeachment). Wouldn't that be the cherry on the double helping of crow, for OBAMA to be impeached rather than TRUMP? Hardee har har.
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Re: The Coup against Donald Trump

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Are you trying to claim the mantle of the late Harold Camping, shifting over to the political realm?
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Re: The Coup against Donald Trump

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Drunk on the coup-laid again. Too late for an intervention.
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Re: The Coup against Donald Trump

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Robert Tulip wrote: A key theme here is political attitudes toward cultural relativism, the idea that all cultures are equal, something only supported on the left as part of political correctness. For cultural relativism, the existence of the state of Israel is obnoxious due to Israel's rejection of equality between Jews and Arabs for existential security reasons. Conservatives tend to see Israel as a beacon of modernity in a backward region of the world, while leftists focus on the assumption of cultural equality, against which Israel's security policies are unacceptable, with progressives often tending to ignore the widespread overt Arab anti-Semitism.
I don't think cultural relativism usually asserts that all cultures are equal. Rather the idea is to oppose the pervasive process by which the "winners" write the history and the interpretations and the justifications. Power doesn't determine truth. Cultural relativism, to my understanding, was and is centrally aimed at assessing behavior within a cultural context, and it may or may not apologize for behavior we would rate as unacceptable in our own culture.

Is it wrong for calligraphy quality to help determine whether a scholar should be given a role in power? Is it wrong for Asians to be excluded from opportunities in the economy of America? Is it wrong for resources to be legally assigned as property of whoever first seizes them, rather than in the interest of the general public? Cultural factors can help us make sense of such actions, and we can decide whether we agree with the cultural choices, or indeed whether we approve of the practices, independently of understanding them. What would be fairly shortsided is to impose disapproval of foreign practices simply because they disagree with ours. Some deeper reason is required.
Robert Tulip wrote:The problem here is that people find it impolite to discuss cultural differences. This situation then means that false assumptions fester, while efforts to address festering problems cannot gain political traction. For example Arab illiteracy seems to have roots in Islamic culture, but the taboo on cultural criticism means this major problem is little understood or discussed.
I think you exaggerate the taboo. Among specialists I would be very surprised if anything of significance remains little understood or discussed. Among the general public, such discussions are likely to be largely about emotional expression rather than about gaining understanding.
Robert Tulip wrote:The result is that an evidence-based theory of change cannot be widely discussed, there is wide ignorance of facts, and when people look at the Middle East they jump to the simplistic conclusion of blaming Israel. Together with the growth of simplistic socialism, the result is that anti-Semitic prejudice now finds a natural home on the political left, as seen by the discomfort of Mr Corbyn in straddling the fence of contradictions that this all produces for British Labour.
I think it is only natural to hold the more powerful side in a conflict to a higher standard. "Because we can" is not a valid moral reason for behaving unjustly, but it is quite common for human groups to take that mistaken option, justifying themselves emotionally rather than morally. There is no question that Israel created an ethnic cleansing campaign at its birth, the Nakba. Nor that propagandists created an alternative version in which the village massacres were fictions created by Arab radio and the exodus of Arab Palestinians was entirely voluntary out of ginned-up fear. There is no question that Israel continues to dominate the water resources of the area and allocate them to Jewish farms. There is no question that Israel excludes land sales by Jews to Arabs, preventing the same kind of gradual change in the land status that was effected by Zionists in the first part of the 20th century, or that illegal settlements continue, and continue to be authorized and enforced by Israel on the West Bank.

Some of that is excused by desperation. But the claim that it is all necessitated by defensive needs has long since passed into lack of credibility, functioning as a rhetorical talking point like the original claims that the ethnic cleansing was an Arab fabrication. These talking points have now come to include branding anyone who is critical of Israeli "security" policy as anti-Semitic. I think it is often fair to label such criticism "one-sided", but to then evoke anti-Semitism is not nearly as credible. The criticism should be addressed directly, and if it is one-sided, explain why that is a reasonable conclusion. But unless the criticism of policy can be associated with antipathy toward jews and Judaism, regardless of the policy issues at stake, then it will rightly be seen as just rhetorical overstatement.

I have seen maps of "Judea and Samaria" that include parts of Jordan (across the Jordan river from the West Bank), Lebanon and Syria. This is the land that extremists believe they are entitled to. And that people like Netanyahu's father believe Israel must take possession of to be secure. Needless to say this means depriving the Arabs in these lands of the right to vote, if not ousting them outright. Just as there are Arab extremists, who get a lot of attention from the pro-Israel commentators, so there are Israeli extremists (which a lot of Israelis know first-hand) who include the assassin of Yitzhak Rabin. We should be doing all we legally can, for the sake of Israelis, to separate these extremists from power. And their enablers, who label any criticism of policies that enable these extremists as anti-Semitic, should be refuted thoroughly.
Robert Tulip wrote:That is not to ignore the problem of right wing extremism, only to note that neo-Nazism is a tiny problem by comparison to broad cultural trends that should be analysed at the level of mass opinion. My impression is that the current cultural and political trends are pushing Jews more into alliance with conservative politics, even though 71% of American Jewish voters supported Clinton in 2016.
One could as easily claim that current cultural and political trends are pushing Gentiles into resisting AIPAC and all other lobbying groups that are pro-Israel. It really depends on how far-sighted or paranoid each group behaves. Claiming that defensiveness is forced, and even more that deceptive rhetoric is forced, puts up a high bar of evidence to be satisfied. But then, that is the ace that extremists keep in the hole - the more they provoke, the more the equally short-sighted response gives them credibility. So far American Jews have been, in my opinion, exceedingly patient and far-sighted. Others see the matter differently, I expect.
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Re: The Coup against Donald Trump

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I don't think it's a good idea to go to Wikipedia for information; it's as likely to tell you that Genghis Khan was the father of Emily Dickinson as anything else. Usually best to go to primary sources.
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Re: The Coup against Donald Trump

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vizitelly wrote:I don't think it's a good idea to go to Wikipedia for information; it's as likely to tell you that Genghis Khan was the father of Emily Dickinson as anything else. Usually best to go to primary sources.
Sorry vizitelly, but your suggestion to avoid Wikipedia is extremely bad advice. Wikipedia is a clearing house for public knowledge and is generally reliable and useful as a first port of call, shifting the paradigm on access to information. There is good reason why Wikipedia is so often at the top of google searches. For example, I have just looked at the entry on cultural relativism and found it very informative. False statements, let alone your absurd example, are usually immediately deleted. Sometimes unsourced or dubious statements are allowed to stand, but generally with a note indicating their status. People who whinge about Wikipedia often want to promote fringe ideas that are not accepted in mainstream scholarship.
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Re: The Coup against Donald Trump

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I was referring to the use of primary sources; previously, when discussing Palestine and Israel post-WW2, the best place to start looking is the writings, and subsequent commentaries on, of Husanyi.
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Re: The Coup against Donald Trump

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Harry Marks wrote:I don't think cultural relativism usually asserts that all cultures are equal.
Apologies, my definition was too truncated and derisive. The relativist view, that any culture can only be assessed on its own terms, is not logically coherent. It means there are no universal objective criteria to assess cultural values. This rejection of objectivity implies there is no way to assess inequality between cultural values. So the equality of all cultures is a perverse implication of cultural relativism, not an explicit doctrine.
Harry Marks wrote:Rather the idea is to oppose the pervasive process by which the "winners" write the history and the interpretations and the justifications.
Such opposition to triumphal history is justified, but what I was getting at was that the opposition to empire must be careful to maintain a balanced view. Some aspects of Trump’s approach may be insane, but the cultural relativist reaction tends to downplay Western values and exaggerate the merits of non-Western cultures. Such a push towards a cultural relativist position is likely to prove an electoral negative in the USA, although it may be advocated by some intellectuals.
Harry Marks wrote:
Robert Tulip wrote:The problem here is that people find it impolite to discuss cultural differences. This situation then means that false assumptions fester, while efforts to address festering problems cannot gain political traction. For example Arab illiteracy seems to have roots in Islamic culture, but the taboo on cultural criticism means this major problem is little understood or discussed.
I think you exaggerate the taboo. Among specialists I would be very surprised if anything of significance remains little understood or discussed. Among the general public, such discussions are likely to be largely about emotional expression rather than about gaining understanding.
Many academic specialists in cultural studies have emotional political commitments to their subject matter that make objectivity difficult.
Harry Marks wrote: it is only natural to hold the more powerful side in a conflict to a higher standard.
Moving now to the Israel situation, your comment is fair in principle, except that the standard too many supporters of Palestine promote also needs to be raised from a focus on resentment and bitterness, camouflaging the problems of corruption and incompetence in the Palestinian Authority. Trump’s support for Israel reflects exasperation at the failure of the Palestinians to seek a realistic partnership with Israel.
Harry Marks wrote: "Because we can" is not a valid moral reason for behaving unjustly, but it is quite common for human groups to take that mistaken option, justifying themselves emotionally rather than morally. There is no question that Israel created an ethnic cleansing campaign at its birth, the Nakba. Nor that propagandists created an alternative version in which the village massacres were fictions created by Arab radio and the exodus of Arab Palestinians was entirely voluntary out of ginned-up fear. There is no question that Israel continues to dominate the water resources of the area and allocate them to Jewish farms. There is no question that Israel excludes land sales by Jews to Arabs, preventing the same kind of gradual change in the land status that was effected by Zionists in the first part of the 20th century, or that illegal settlements continue, and continue to be authorized and enforced by Israel on the West Bank.
All true, but there is something very autocratic about Arab culture, with elections in Palestine postponed indefinitely. It makes trust in a negotiating partner hard to find. It is unspeakably sad that UNRWA supports intergenerational refugee status based on a forlorn political hope of right of return, when no Jews seek right of return for their assets seized after they fled Arab countries.
Harry Marks wrote: Some of that is excused by desperation. But the claim that it is all necessitated by defensive needs has long since passed into lack of credibility, functioning as a rhetorical talking point like the original claims that the ethnic cleansing was an Arab fabrication. These talking points have now come to include branding anyone who is critical of Israeli "security" policy as anti-Semitic. I think it is often fair to label such criticism "one-sided", but to then evoke anti-Semitism is not nearly as credible. The criticism should be addressed directly, and if it is one-sided, explain why that is a reasonable conclusion. But unless the criticism of policy can be associated with antipathy toward jews and Judaism, regardless of the policy issues at stake, then it will rightly be seen as just rhetorical overstatement.
To liken Israel’s security situation to extremist propaganda and rhetoric is profoundly unrealistic. Broad Arab hatred towards Israel necessitates a hard line. Israel has the capacity to drag the Middle East into the modern world, if Islamists can somehow be inspired to abandon their anti-Semitism. Christianity has an important role with its theology of forgiveness and reconciliation.
Harry Marks wrote: I have seen maps of "Judea and Samaria" that include parts of Jordan (across the Jordan river from the West Bank), Lebanon and Syria. This is the land that extremists believe they are entitled to. And that people like Netanyahu's father believe Israel must take possession of to be secure. Needless to say this means depriving the Arabs in these lands of the right to vote, if not ousting them outright. Just as there are Arab extremists, who get a lot of attention from the pro-Israel commentators, so there are Israeli extremists (which a lot of Israelis know first-hand) who include the assassin of Yitzhak Rabin. We should be doing all we legally can, for the sake of Israelis, to separate these extremists from power. And their enablers, who label any criticism of policies that enable these extremists as anti-Semitic, should be refuted thoroughly.
Once again you are presenting a complex situation in an overly simple way. Netanyahu’s father was a distinguished Professor of History at Cornell. Yes, he supported the ‘iron wall’ Jabotinsky line that remains influential in Likud, and yes the Israeli right dreams of recreating a Davidic kingdom. I remain of the view though that this extremism has arisen as a reaction against the extremism of anti-Semitism, first in the Holocaust and then in Arab hatred towards Israel.
Harry Marks wrote: One could as easily claim that current cultural and political trends are pushing Gentiles into resisting AIPAC and all other lobbying groups that are pro-Israel. It really depends on how far-sighted or paranoid each group behaves. Claiming that defensiveness is forced, and even more that deceptive rhetoric is forced, puts up a high bar of evidence to be satisfied. But then, that is the ace that extremists keep in the hole - the more they provoke, the more the equally short-sighted response gives them credibility. So far American Jews have been, in my opinion, exceedingly patient and far-sighted. Others see the matter differently, I expect.
It will be interesting to see the extent to which Zionist over-reach undermines Western support for Israel. Your description of the ‘ace in the hole’ looks a bit fanciful, like Trump believing that his lies increase his support by undermining the concept of public truth. Such a hand can only go so far before the house of cards collapses as the ace turns out to be a two of spades. So I do think the future for Israel absolutely requires dialogue rather than intransigence, reconciliation rather than extremism. Unfortunately Trump seems incapable of seeing that security logic. The Wall Street Journal had an excellent article on May 24 covering these themes, arguing that Israel is formidable in diplomatic, economic and military terms, and can best serve its interests as a friend to Palestinians.
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Re: The Coup against Donald Trump

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Any discussion about the Middle East and how to resolve or prevent conflict is, ultimately, a circular discussion because the Western powers still take an imperialist viewpoint : from Syria through to Morocco anybody could be forgiven for thinking that the impetus for intervention is still to pursue the C19th aim of containing Russia by denying her a warm water port. This, in the age of space exploration and the internet; America's answer - militarise space (from Reagan to Trump) or block the Eastern half of the planet from internet access (Huawei and God knows what else).
As long as USA and its Western allies use the Middle East as a buffer zone against what they still clearly think of as a potential Russian invasion (presumably to spread Communism - maybe, just to make it even more terrifying, it will be the Chinese) then there is no interest in trying to bring peace to the Middle East. This is why it is, at present, an intractable problem. A good start, though, would to be to understand that political ideologies are ideas and cannot be contained. If anybody asks why the richest nations in the world (The West) still suffer from poverty in all its forms, the answer is that their govts are spending the tax receipts in the Middle East.
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Re: The Coup against Donald Trump

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vizitelly wrote:I was referring to the use of primary sources; previously, when discussing Palestine and Israel post-WW2, the best place to start looking is the writings, and subsequent commentaries on, of Husanyi.
I'm on the fence on the Wiki question. On the one hand I have heard they are as reliable as a typical encyclopedia, where experts are paid to get it right. On the other hand, my first-hand experience indicates that nothing commercial is to be trusted on Wikipedia (who has time to check the claims of a private school or Jiffy Lube about what it claims on Wikipedia? And for that matter, who has time to monitor to see that a competitor or a disgruntled student hasn't posted something specious?) and politically controversial topics are subject to wild and crazy rewrites. Once a difference of opinion gets involved, the process seems to sorth things out reasonably well.
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