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The core of morality

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Interbane

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The core of morality

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This is an open question. I think that the perfect answer is an ideal, we can get close but perhaps not achieve it. Part of the reason is that lingual information doesn't exactly translate to our human operating systems. Part is also that we each hold slightly varying definitions of words. Part is also that the way the answer applies to our worldviews will vary from person to person.

Try to summarize your individual moral codes. Give a single axiom in paragraph form that if followed and sanctified, would lead a person to behave in the most moral way possible.

How about to treat others in the way they wish to be treated? This might work for a critical thinker, but for some people, the connections are too abstract. Someone who sells drugs would may not be able to see the consequences of their actions clearly enough. Or they may too easily rationalize their actions. "I'm providing a service, that if I didn't provide, someone else would. The people who buy my drugs want to be treated with drugs." The moral axiom would need to take faulty worldviews and rationalizations into account.

It may be too difficult of a question, but give it a shot. Or at least give me your thoughts.
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Re: The core of morality

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Interbane wrote:Try to summarize your individual moral codes.
(Emphasis mine)

You do well to distinguish between personal moral code and our evolved altruistic nature, which seems to benefit us both from an individual (survival and passing genes along) perspective as well as from a good-of-the- group perspective. Our personal moral code arises from conscious decisions we make to override some of our more basic instincts.

In recent years I've leaned heavily on the Greek aphorism to "know thyself." For me to reach my highest potential and become the best person I can be, I strive to keep my eyes wide open with regards to my own thoughts and actions. To do this it's crucial to understand how the human brain works (at least to the best of our current knowledge). To know that in some sense we are flawed, limited beings with a tendency towards bias and self delusion and post hoc rationalization. Don't trust the narratives that our brain concocts to explain our actions.

In other words, (try to) know thyself!

For example, I’ve downloaded my share of music (illegally). I can pretty easily rationalize this act. The record companies get most of the profits, the artist hardly gets anything anyway, I buy more music than anyone I know, etc. But if I open my eyes to the truth of the matter, I can easily dismiss these rationalizations. Then I’m faced with the stark truth: I am a petty thief. And is this the kind of person I want to be?

I think you can only face the truth, eyes wide open, if you take the time to glean the kind of introspection that comes from awareness of your biases and inclinations that stem from our evolutionary underpinnings. This is my own peculiar way of looking at the issue and I certainly don't think that's how everyone should look at it.

Some aphorisms do make good guides and can be regarded as axiomatic truths. “Know thyself” probably requires too much explanation to serve beyond a personal guide. Here are two that are much more succinct and so probably work much better as essential moral truths for the ages:

1) (The Golden Rule) - Treat others as one would like others to treat oneself.

2) Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle.

Interbane mentioned the Golden Rule and I do think it represents the most crucial and basic tenet of human altruism.

I like number two here especially because it adds empathy to the equation and reminds us of the universality of the human condition. It allows us to see the larger perspective.
Last edited by geo on Thu May 15, 2014 4:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The core of morality

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Every interaction with a person during your day will have an impact on their lives. We can have positive, negative or neutral impact. At a minimum, we should not make their days any worse, or harder to deal with. Best practice seems to be to leave them with something better than they had before you entered their lives. We should always strive to maximize the mental and physical health and wellbeing of all we encounter.

Even buying something at the gas station is a chance for you to change a life.

You can say something cheerful and pleasant, or you can be generally grouchy and depressing. How easy is it to ruin someone’s day?

Somebody hands you the wrong item from behind the counter.

“That’s not it. What are you stupid?!”

That has ruined a day. They don’t know you. They don’t really care about you personally. But every time they have a quiet moment, they will think about how some random person said something spiteful to them over nothing. That sours their mood and makes a chain reaction that spreads out from them to everyone they interact with that day.

How easy is it to improve someone’s day? Maybe their life?
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Are you pushing your own short comings on us and safely hating them from a distance?

Is this the virtue of faith? To never change your mind: especially when you should?

Young Earth Creationists take offense at the idea that we have a common heritage with other animals. Why is being the descendant of a mud golem any better?
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Re: The core of morality

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johnson1010 wrote:Every interaction with a person during your day will have an impact on their lives. We can have positive, negative or neutral impact. At a minimum, we should not make their days any worse, or harder to deal with. Best practice seems to be to leave them with something better than they had before you entered their lives. We should always strive to maximize the mental and physical health and wellbeing of all we encounter.

Even buying something at the gas station is a chance for you to change a life.

You can say something cheerful and pleasant, or you can be generally grouchy and depressing. How easy is it to ruin someone’s day?

Somebody hands you the wrong item from behind the counter.

“That’s not it. What are you stupid?!”

That has ruined a day. They don’t know you. They don’t really care about you personally. But every time they have a quiet moment, they will think about how some random person said something spiteful to them over nothing. That sours their mood and makes a chain reaction that spreads out from them to everyone they interact with that day.

How easy is it to improve someone’s day? Maybe their life?
This is a really excellent observation, and one that I have pondered over a time or two. When you consider how interconnected all of our lives are, and how our influence extends beyond ourselves to others, who in turn influence others, and others. A kind deed for a stranger really could continue to impact the lives of other people days, weeks, months, years into the future.

By the same token, I've found it seldom serves any purpose to be rude to a stranger, and that includes yelling at the other driver that cuts you off in traffic. Has anyone else noticed how we give ourselves the benefit of a doubt, but not other people? In other words, we assume the best about ourselves and our intentions, but often the worse about strangers? If I do something stupid that inconveniences someone else, it is because I was in a hurry, desperate, had no other choice, or some other extenuating circumstance. If a stranger does something stupid that inconveniences me, it's because he's a jerk.

Interesting stuff there.
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Re: The core of morality

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There are prerequisites to an axiomatic moral code that complicate things. First, a person needs a certain minimum understanding of how the world works in order to interpret then apply the code. You can't compress that, it's too much information. The other prerequisite is that the person needs 'normally functioning' moral emotions. Moral codes are the informational portion of morality, and are able to properly apply only if the behavioral mechanisms are functioning normally. No single axiom can correct all potential anomalous psychological make-ups. It would fail for a certain percentage of people.

Another issue I see is that we don't know how societies will be structured in the future. If it's an axiomatic moral code we seek, it would need to have an exact amount of flexibility. Too much, and hermeneutics would taint it. Too little, and it would require revision. Revision holds the same issues that hermeneutics holds, the potential of usurpation or negative alteration by descendants.
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Re: The core of morality

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Yeah,

Morality is a fluid construct constantly maintained by those which it effects.

I don't think you could put out an unchanging edict that would be appropriate for all times / places / intelligences.

One of the highest ideals we should strive for is to lift up and empower all people, and yet there are instances where one person must be put to death to save many.

Saying we should never kill another human sounds great. But when there is another human who doesn't follow that rule and is there ready to kill twenty others, surely the bigger crime is to allow yourself to be bound by your morals and let the one bad person, the one who initiated the violence, to successfully kill those twenty people, and then perhaps you as well, and then move on to yet another group of people who aknowledge it is bad to kill people and won't do it, even to protect themselves.

This is why i tend to think of morality in terms of the set of behaviors which enable sentient entities to co-exist and minimize the abuse of any individual in that group.

I see our current issues as a lack of appreciation of what our "group" should be. Our group should include not only the people in our families, or towns, or countries. But everybody on the planet, and the other organisms on our planet. For our success is intimately tied to their success, and we cannot be a happy thriving group if we live on a planet without a thriving ecosystem to support us.
In the absence of God, I found Man.
-Guillermo Del Torro

Are you pushing your own short comings on us and safely hating them from a distance?

Is this the virtue of faith? To never change your mind: especially when you should?

Young Earth Creationists take offense at the idea that we have a common heritage with other animals. Why is being the descendant of a mud golem any better?
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Re: The core of morality

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I see our current issues as a lack of appreciation of what our "group" should be. Our group should include not only the people in our families, or towns, or countries. But everybody on the planet, and the other organisms on our planet.
People in the distant future should be included in the group, to some extent. This consideration changes things a bit.
I don't think you could put out an unchanging edict that would be appropriate for all times / places / intelligences.
Well, in spite of the objections raised here(by myself as well as you and the Georges), I think we could come close. We're nowhere near the point of having such an overarching Guide. Regarding our moral systems, we're in that state of flux, the chaos before order emerges. Emergence may be in a hundred years or a thousand, but I'm confident something will eventually emerge.

I believe a good part of it will be teaching a worldview and communication; the information we hold and how we express and exchange it. The present analogue is the curriculum of state education. It teaches a worldview and communication. Math is essential to any truthful worldview, as it describes the mechanisms. Other fields are math-laden. Further from math, and more in line with what we consider worldviews, are the differing philosophies. Somewhere in between is science, history, and the humanities. Art, english, writing, music, etc, are all communication.

I believe the worldview portion is objective enough that there is a right one, and many wrong ones. We have a long ways to go here. Communication matters in as much as it's standardized. Eliminating potential ambiguity, and tying the proper word to the proper concept. Each atom of a worldview has it's communication counterpart, and each connection of worldview elements has it's communication counterpart. Communication may develop alongside a worldview, but it's ultimately subservient to it.

Imagine that we have all the knowledge there is to have within our section of the universe. We have a theory of everything, and can explain everything. Individual solar systems are math based, so abstraction works to minimize the amount of needed information for vast swaths of the universe. If Earth is the only world with life in our galaxy, I think there is more to learn about Earth than there is the rest of the galaxy combined. When we know nearly everything, the worldview we teach successive generations will be standardized. This comes close to being unchanging. If properly taught, the Worldview and proper Communication would be standardized across all humanity. I think it's a matter of time, though I have no idea how long that will be. Centuries? Eons?

There will be a core portion of the worldview taught to everyone, and specialized extensions taught individually for specialization. In such a civilization, it makes sense that there would be an unchanging moral edict. The core worldview will be sufficient for the moral edict to be understood and followed.

What my question is hinting at, is that if the future does unfold as I explain above, it starts now. The current chaos is the breeding ground that will birth the first generation of standardized worldviews. It's already started, of course, and my bet is on philosophical naturalism(or a variation of it). But that worldview needs to be supplemented. It isn't whole. Morality is missing, thus my question. Is humanism the seed that will sprout the strongest system?
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Re: The core of morality

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Interbane wrote:. . .
I believe a good part of it will be teaching a worldview and communication; the information we hold and how we express and exchange it. The present analogue is the curriculum of state education. It teaches a worldview and communication. Math is essential to any truthful worldview, as it describes the mechanisms. Other fields are math-laden. Further from math, and more in line with what we consider worldviews, are the differing philosophies. Somewhere in between is science, history, and the humanities. Art, english, writing, music, etc, are all communication.
This and some of johnson's comments reminded me of Asimov's three laws from I Robot. I wonder if the moral instruction of the future could be expressed much the same way, almost like a set of computer instructions. The instructions would have to delineate, for example, when suspension of the Golden Rule is justified, such as if your life is being threatened or someone you love is being threatened or your country is threatened as in time of war. But ultimately it would be nearly impossible to lay out every possible scenario when suspension of the Golden Rule is justified.

I think you're on the right track with the idea for moral instruction. Jonathan Haidt, I think, covers some relevant ground in his book THE HAPPINESS HYPOTHESIS. According to Haidt, our approach to morality in the west teaches the driver the hows and whys of morality, but the elephant, too, must be trained somehow. How to bring the driver and elephant in alignment is key.

Anyway, rather than try to paraphrase him, I’ll just post some of the text from the book:
When we Westerners think about morality, we use concepts that are thousands of years old, but that took a turn in their development in the last two hundred years. We don’t realize that our approach to morality is odd from the perspective of other cultures, or that it is based on a particular set of psychological assumptions—a set that now appears to be wrong. Every culture is concerned about the moral development of its children, and in every culture that left us more than a few pages of writing, we find texts that reveal its approach to morality. Specific rules and prohibitions vary, but the broad outlines of these approaches have a lot in common. Most cultures wrote about virtues that should be cultivated, and many of those virtues were and still are valued across most cultures7 (for example, honesty, justice, courage, benevolence, self-restraint, and respect for authority). Most approaches then specified actions that were good and bad with respect to those virtues. Most approaches were practical, striving to inculcate virtues that would benefit the person who cultivates them.

. . . An additional common feature is that these ancient texts rely heavily on maxims and role models rather than proofs and logic. Maxims are carefully phrased to produce a flash of insight and approval. Role models are presented to elicit admiration and awe. When moral instruction triggers emotions, it speaks to the elephant as well as the rider. The wisdom of Confucius and Buddha, for example, comes down to us as lists of aphorisms so timeless and evocative that people still read them today for pleasure and guidance, refer to them as “worldwide laws of life,”9 and write books about their scientific validity.

. . . A third feature of many ancient texts is that they emphasize practice and habit rather than factual knowledge. Confucius compared moral development to learning how to play music;10 both require the study of texts, observance of role models, and many years of practice to develop “virtuosity.” Aristotle used a similar metaphor: Men become builders by building houses, and harpists by playing the harp. Similarly, we grow just by the practice of just actions, self-controlled by exercising our self-control, and courageous by performing acts of courage.11 Buddha offered his followers the “Eightfold Noble Path,” a set of activities that will, with practice, create an ethical person (by right speech, right action, right livelihood), and a mentally disciplined person (by right effort, right mindfulness, right concentration). In all these ways, the ancients reveal a sophisticated understanding of moral psychology, similar to Franklin’s. They all knew that virtue resides in a well-trained elephant. They all knew that training takes daily practice and a great deal of repetition. The rider must take part in the training, but if moral instruction imparts only explicit knowledge (facts that the rider can state), it will have no effect on the elephant, and therefore little effect on behavior. Moral education must also impart tacit knowledge—skills of social perception and social emotion so finely tuned that one automatically feels the right thing in each situation, knows the right thing to do, and then wants to do it. Morality, for the ancients, was a kind of practical wisdom.
Haidt, Jonathan (2006-12-26). The Happiness Hypothesis: Finding Modern Truth in Ancient Wisdom
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Re: The core of morality

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Is a hundred or thousand years enough time to educate the likes of Boco Haram on the principles of morality? Western civ isn't lacking in principles, but some of the oldest peoples are, how does political correctness account for that? I do not think that humans will ever devise a moral code that can be kind in its deliverance of an assumed just cause. humanism as a natural state seems weak in over coming selfish greed. Take one bad guy out and another takes his place, this hasn't changed in what 15,20,30 thousand years or more. Like as not but people are people and we'll continue to drive each other insane. I realize I'm not offering much of a case here for some moral philosophy but in my case I have little confidence in believing that the people who need the code will ever implement a morally just life despite there particular circumstance.
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Re: The core of morality

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Is a hundred or thousand years enough time to educate the likes of Boco Haram on the principles of morality?
I think so, yes. The world has changed more in the last 10 years than in the previous 100, and more in the previous 100 than the previous 1000. Rate of change is accelerating. A hundred years is three generations, plenty of time to comprehensively overhaul the Nigerian education system.

In a hundred years, will all previously third world countries become first world countries? As I said, the current worldwide chaos has a foreshadowing of sorts. I believe something will emerge.
(for example, honesty, justice, courage, benevolence, self-restraint, and respect for authority). Most approaches then specified actions that were good and bad with respect to those virtues. Most approaches were practical, striving to inculcate virtues that would benefit the person who cultivates them.
Virtue Ethics. From the SEP and Aristotle:

"Aristotle makes a number of specific remarks about phronesis that are the subject of much scholarly debate, but the (related) modern concept is best understood by thinking of what the virtuous morally mature adult has that nice children, including nice adolescents, lack. Both the virtuous adult and the nice child have good intentions, but the child is much more prone to mess things up because he is ignorant of what he needs to know in order to do what he intends."

I think it was Massimo Pigliucci that believe virtue ethics was the best of the moral philosophies. The issue with it, even though it works across cultures, is that it's cultural and fluid. Lineages that start missing vital instruction (or never had it in the first place)lead to cultures that warp the priorities of virtues. Or the government/authority is structured in a negative feedback fashion, rewarding bad behaviors.

Geo, did Haidt use any example of a culture that had it's instruction written down, comprehensively? Or was it all parent/tribe to child while raising? It seems to be a chinese telephone game that is kept in check by collective consideration.

Regarding the rider and elephant, the virtues should play on the moral emotions. This can only be done if society holds the virtues in high esteem. In our society in general, we don't hold people's feet to the fire as much as we should for lying. Without this in place, the moral emotions won't kick in to discipline the elephant. Self-restraint also seems hit or miss. Wrong actions can blend into the background the way our society is structured. Guilt, shame, and embarrassment seem mostly in play regarding our family and work(our tribe). It's too easy to act immorally when they're not around.
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