Online reading group and book discussion forum
  HOME ENTER FORUMS OUR BOOKS LINKS DONATE ADVERTISE CONTACT  
View unanswered posts | View active topics It is currently Mon Oct 21, 2019 12:39 am





Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 76 posts ] • Topic evaluate: Evaluations: 0, 0.00 on the average.Evaluations: 0, 0.00 on the average.Evaluations: 0, 0.00 on the average.Evaluations: 0, 0.00 on the average.Evaluations: 0, 0.00 on the average.  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next
Story 1: THE ADULTEROUS WOMAN 
Author Message
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
Genius


Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 759
Thanks: 3
Thanked: 13 times in 12 posts
Gender: None specified

Post 
Garlands of stars hung down from the black sky over the palm trees and houses. She ran along the short avenue, now empty, that led to the fort. The cold, no longer having to struggle against the sun, had invaded the night; the icy air burned her lungs. But she ran, half blind, in the darkness. At the top of the avenue, however, lights appeared, then descended toward her zigzagging. She stopped, caught the whir of turning sprockets and, behind the enlarging lights, soon saw vast burnooses surmounting fragile bicycle wheels. The burnooses flapped against her; then three red lights sprang out of the black behind her and disappeared at once. She continued running toward the fort. Halfway up the stairs, the air burned her lungs with such cutting effect that she wanted to stop. A final burst of energy hurled her despite herself onto the terrace, against the parapet, which was now pressing her belly. She was panting and everything was hazy before her eyes. Her running had not warmed her and she was still trembling all over. But the cold air she was gulping down soon flowed evenly inside her and a spark of warmth began to glow amidst her shivers. Her eyes opened at last on the expanse of night.

[i]See there's another thing



Tue Jun 03, 2008 3:48 pm
Profile
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
Genius


Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 759
Thanks: 3
Thanked: 13 times in 12 posts
Gender: None specified

Post 
Not a breath, not a sound



Tue Jun 03, 2008 6:49 pm
Profile
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
Almost Comfortable


Joined: May 2008
Posts: 19
Location: Currently: Utah
Thanks: 0
Thanked: 0 time in 0 post
Gender: None specified

Post 
[quote="WildCityWoman"]Did Janine need a child? Why is it assumed that every woman needs a child? Maybe Camus saw it that way; guess he did



Tue Jun 03, 2008 10:31 pm
Profile
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
Genius


Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 759
Thanks: 3
Thanked: 13 times in 12 posts
Gender: None specified

Post 
Well, I can't speak for myself - I have two children - daughters, who are now mothers themselves.

I didn't have a child until I was going on 28 - before then, I wasn't that worried about it.

I guess some women feel the childless situation more than others.

So you're saying it wasn't necessarily Camus's opinion - it was the general view of the time and place?



Wed Jun 04, 2008 12:43 am
Profile
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
Almost Comfortable


Joined: May 2008
Posts: 19
Location: Currently: Utah
Thanks: 0
Thanked: 0 time in 0 post
Gender: None specified

Post 
Not really. Yes, I agree that children--and lack of children--can mean many things personally. I just suspect that Camus is not talking about Janine's maternal instincts so much as he is using children as a symbol for something bigger. When she's on the fort for the first time:
Quote:
"It seemed to her that the turning Earth had simply stopped, and that from now on no one would grow old or die. Everywhere, henceforth, life was suspended, except in her heart, where at that very moment someone was weeping with pain and wonder" (19).


The desert can be a great symbol of constancy, of a kind of immortality where life is suspended in an imitation of death. Having no children (in stories, at least) is a similar suspension of the natural cycle of life. It's almost like Janine believes she can live forever in that moment--it's almost like they don't need children, or death. But then the moment is gone. So the couple's barrenness just adds a more concrete edge to that feeling she has.



Wed Jun 04, 2008 6:41 pm
Profile
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
Genius


Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 759
Thanks: 3
Thanked: 13 times in 12 posts
Gender: None specified

Post 
Do you think Camus, in this particular story, deliberately used the desert as a symbol?



Wed Jun 04, 2008 8:24 pm
Profile
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
Almost Comfortable


Joined: May 2008
Posts: 19
Location: Currently: Utah
Thanks: 0
Thanked: 0 time in 0 post
Gender: None specified

Post 
Well, I'm not saying he picked the desert because he wanted to use it as a symbol. He was probably familiar with the Algerian landscape. But I think on the roof of the fort, the desert becomes much more than just another setting. At least in Janine's mind, it takes on a significance that may not be connected with its reality. Powerful images like that tend to take on lives of their own (kind of like the sea)--even if the author doesn't prescribe a given meaning onto them. I'm not saying we should read the desert as a straight "symbol" for any one thing, either; but it does serve a function other than just giving the characters a place to say their lines.



Wed Jun 04, 2008 9:02 pm
Profile
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
BookTalk.org Hall of Fame

Platinum Contributor

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 6322
Location: Luray, Virginia
Thanks: 1829
Thanked: 2011 times in 1527 posts
Gender: Male
Country: United States (us)

Post 
Yuvie, just wanted to say that I'm enjoying your sensitive and perceptive posts on the stories.
DWill



Wed Jun 04, 2008 11:06 pm
Profile
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
Genius


Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 759
Thanks: 3
Thanked: 13 times in 12 posts
Gender: None specified

Post 
People perceive things differently - better to say what you think, rather than what 90% of the room is thinking . . . I think - heh! heh!



Thu Jun 05, 2008 6:34 pm
Profile
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
BookTalk.org Hall of Fame

BookTalk.org Owner
Diamond Contributor 3

Joined: May 2002
Posts: 16153
Location: Florida
Thanks: 3485
Thanked: 1319 times in 1041 posts
Gender: Male
Country: United States (us)

Post 
I've yet to read all your posts to this short story thread, but before I hit the sack I thought I would make a quick comment. Camus is a talented writer, but in this story I was left scratching my heading wondering what he was talking about repeatedly. Maybe tomorrow when I'm not half asleep I'll post about my feelings.

But for now....

I'm a bit annoyed with her husband for being completely blind to her very human needs. It is selfish. Camus really is a master at describing the emotions that she felt from one moment to the next. I really felt like I was seeing and smelling and tasting everything she experienced.

Damn I'm tired. :doze:



Fri Jun 13, 2008 1:56 am
Profile Email WWW
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
BookTalk.org Hall of Fame

BookTalk.org Owner
Diamond Contributor 3

Joined: May 2002
Posts: 16153
Location: Florida
Thanks: 3485
Thanked: 1319 times in 1041 posts
Gender: Male
Country: United States (us)

Post 
Quote:
Do you think Camus, in this particular story, deliberately used the desert as a symbol?


Definitely. The desert is bleak and empty and harsh and devoid of color and life. If Camus wasn't purposely trying to instill in the reader a sense of helplessness then his subconscious mind did it.



Fri Jun 13, 2008 2:00 am
Profile Email WWW
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
Genius


Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 759
Thanks: 3
Thanked: 13 times in 12 posts
Gender: None specified

Post 
When I look for symbolism in a writer's work, I like to put myself in his shoe's . . . think - is the writer telling a story, deliverying a message, or both.

Subconsciously, well . . . maybe looking at the desert from a high place would make him 'feel' something like this. And maybe it could make him feel happy - like rain . . . rain can make a person feel moody, pensive, introspective.

Unless Camus has actually admitted this in an essay somewhere - maybe he wrote something 'on writing', taught a class - maybe he's told students in an essay/paper to use the desert and sea in this way.

Then I'd be sure of it.

But to me - he's just telling a story.



Fri Jun 13, 2008 12:02 pm
Profile
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
BookTalk.org Hall of Fame

Platinum Contributor

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 6322
Location: Luray, Virginia
Thanks: 1829
Thanked: 2011 times in 1527 posts
Gender: Male
Country: United States (us)

Post 
Chris OConnor wrote:
Definitely. The desert is bleak and empty and harsh and devoid of color and life. If Camus wasn't purposely trying to instill in the reader a sense of helplessness then his subconscious mind did it.

It seems that is Janine's reaction to it when she and Marcel first arrive. I get a strong sense, though, that the desert is instrumental in the epiphany that Janine has at the end and in the feelings she has several pages earlier. The experience is at least partly an esthetic one, which is believable because the desert can indeed be beautiful.

I'm not really sure whether Camus would have used the desert as a symbol, consciously or unconsciously. His thought seems to be that we decide on and forge our own meanings, and this might preclude the desert standing for some intrinsic meaning.
DWill



Fri Jun 13, 2008 12:17 pm
Profile
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
Genius


Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 759
Thanks: 3
Thanked: 13 times in 12 posts
Gender: None specified

Post 
Well, let's put it this way - if I were to use a view of the desert in order to express an emotion, it would be 'consciously' . . . not subconsciously.

I'd have to be looking for something to use for a metaphor - and if the desert was 'there' (or the ocean), I'd use it.

But only if I felt I absolutely 'had to' use a metaphor. If, for instance, I was doing a course where the teacher assigned me to do it.

If I were telling a story of an emotion I had, or somebody else had, I'd just tell it - wouldn't matter if I had a desert or not.

We're walking around in circles with this one.



Fri Jun 13, 2008 6:18 pm
Profile
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
BookTalk.org Hall of Fame

Gold Contributor

Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 5815
Location: Canberra
Thanks: 2272
Thanked: 2199 times in 1665 posts
Gender: Male
Country: Australia (au)

Post Divided loyalties...
Thinking further about The Adulterous Woman, and other stories in Exile and the Kingdom, this theme of divided loyalties is a recurring motif. Those who demand loyalty are jealous of anything else that commands the attention of the loyal. Yet, Janine's husband does not meet her needs for spiritual fulfillment, so she adulterates her love for her husband by secretly also loving the desert.



Sat Jun 21, 2008 8:52 pm
Profile Email WWW
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 76 posts ] • Topic evaluate: Evaluations: 0, 0.00 on the average.Evaluations: 0, 0.00 on the average.Evaluations: 0, 0.00 on the average.Evaluations: 0, 0.00 on the average.Evaluations: 0, 0.00 on the average.  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:

Announcements 

• Promote Your Fiction Book on BookTalk.org
Sun Jul 30, 2017 7:33 pm

• Promote Your Non-Fiction Book on BookTalk.org
Sun Jul 30, 2017 7:18 pm



Site Resources 
HELPFUL INFO:
Forum Rules & Tips
Frequently Asked Questions
BBCode Explained
Author Interview Transcripts
Be a Book Discussion Leader!

IDEAS FOR WHAT TO READ:
Bestsellers
Book Awards
• Book Reviews
• Online Books
• Team Picks
Newspaper Book Sections

WHERE TO BUY BOOKS:
• Great resource pages are coming!

BEHIND THE BOOKS:
• Great resource pages are coming!

PROMOTE YOUR BOOK!
Advertise on BookTalk.org
How To Promote Your Book





BookTalk.org is a thriving book discussion forum, online reading group or book club. We read and talk about both fiction and non-fiction books as a community. Our forums are open to anyone in the world. While discussing books is our passion we also have active forums for talking about poetry, short stories, writing and authors. Our general discussion forum section includes forums for discussing science, religion, philosophy, politics, history, current events, arts, entertainment and more. We hope you join us!


Navigation 
MAIN NAVIGATION

HOMEFORUMSOUR BOOKSAUTHOR INTERVIEWSADVERTISELINKSFAQDONATETERMS OF USEPRIVACY POLICYSITEMAP

OTHER PAGES WORTH EXPLORING
Banned Book ListOnline Reading GroupTop 10 Atheism Books

Copyright © BookTalk.org 2002-2019. All rights reserved.
Display Pagerank