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Something I've always wondered

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MaesterAuron151

Re: Something I've always wondered

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Well kinda. Ever seen Signs? I think sometimes moments of luck are not always mere coincedence. This is kind of a crazy example but bear with me.Supose some kind of glowing white alien being came down to earth and performed all sorts of "miracles" and revitalized our society. The Theists start to say that this creature was an angle. Atheists or even other Theists would say that it wasn't an angel it was a very benevolent alien.I'd say both are right.Prayers these days usually aren't meant to do anything drastic. Usually people pray for strength or will power and the like. The act of praying could help a person to overcome some personal problem. Since in my view human beings are part of god yes god is in a way answering this person's prayer.So what if others don't consider this to be god. I'm quite satisfied with it.
MaesterAuron151

Re: Something I've always wondered

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Truth is merely what we interpret via our highly fallible senses.But besides that there's how we interprit that which we hold as truth. There are many ways to interprit the world around us.One big problem with athiests and thiests is they don't agree on each other's job in the world.The Athiests believe that the theists need to prove god exists. The theists believe the atheists need to prove he doesn't.To me this is a complete tie. No one has won no one has lost. Both sides should learn to respect one another.
funda62

Re: Something I've always wondered

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Quote:If one person believes with all their heart that 5 + 5 = Pacific Ocean, they are not "entitled to respect" as I so often hear from theists.Chris, when I was new to aethism, I thought I had to respect theist beliefs too. Then I realized that they had absolutely zero tolerance or respect for me as a person or my beliefs even though their religion often tells them that they should.Now I realize how much harm theists are doing to the world. Oh sure humans would probably just find something else to fight over but at least it wouldn't be imaginary beings based on fairy tales. I have no respect for theistic points of view or beliefs. I'll judge the people one by one.ETA: As for why bother living? Well we are genetically enginered to fight for survival. If our ancestors would not have had that trait then they would have died out and humans wouldn't be around screwing up the planet like they are today. Funda "If a man does not keep pace with his companions, prehaps it is because he hears a different drummer. Let him step to the music which he hears, however measured or far away." -Henry David ThoreauEdited by: funda62 at: 9/11/06 2:36 pm
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Mr. P

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Re: Something I've always wondered

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Absolutely right Funda...and when the problems are shaded by fairy tales and mythological beings, and when that is again shaded by faith and how it is 'wrong' to criticize the beliefs of others, because 'every should be entitled to believe as they choose', it makes it much harder to focus on the real problems and find solutions.If the veil was stripped away, I think we would be able to start working on the real issues. But some people do not WANT that at all. The mystery and confusion is beneficial to keeping the masses in the dark and oblivious.Mr. P. Mr. P's place. I warned you!!!The one thing of which I am positive is that there is much of which to be negative - Mr. P.The pain in hell has two sides. The kind you can touch with your hand; the kind you can feel in your heart...Scorsese's "Mean Streets"I came to kick ass and chew Bubble Gum...and I am all out of Bubble Gum - They Live, Roddy Piper
MaesterAuron151

Re: Something I've always wondered

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Ah eye for an eye approach. They wont accept you're beliefs so you wont accept there's. Thats a very mature stance, I'm pretty sure that always works out well historically.Don't you see that you're exactly the same as the people you're against. They're trying to force their beliefs on others with no discretion, and you do the same. Some may do it more violently or with different means but the core principal remains the same. This mentality has been tearing civilizations apart for centuries.
MaesterAuron151

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Quote:But I do not see anyone willing to kill in the name of strings. Science, generally, accepts the self correcting mechanisms that make it work and make it a more honest system for figuring out what we are and where we live.No civilized person supports killing in the name of religeon. Most people don't kill in the name of their religeon. In fact many donate to charity, and save lives in the name of their religeon.Quote:Science claims no absolute truth, religion, most religions I know of, do.I've often heard all science summed up as "Proven fact". As if proven fact can even exist.Claims to absolute truth depend on the believer. A casual Christian can believe in the story of Christ, but also accept the fact that its possible for him to be wrong. Likewise a string theorist could denounce all other theories as rubbish and refuse to even hear them. The uniting factor is not religeon it is dogmatism.
tomiichi

Re: Something I've always wondered

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I understand why some theists are theists. Humans by nature are like pack animals, most go with the flow and follow. Many people are raised theists, and remain theists because they don't have the backbone to enter the unknown. Can we really look down upon them for that? I think there beliefs are ludicrous, but what I think is crazier is that they won't venture outside there bubbles.As for what is the point of living? It doesn't matter what is on the other side, I care enough about my life now to care now. We are matter and conscious thought of this universe and I don't think that will ever die, whatever form it takes. So what if actual living people eventully descend into the abyss, something else will form to take our place. Hence, we will still be leaving an impact on the universe.
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Re: Something I've always wondered

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MasterQuote:I've often heard all science summed up as "Proven fact". As if proven fact can even exist.If I told you that you'd die if I pushed you off a 15 story building without a parachute and said it was a "proven fact" would you argue?We all struggle to word our arguments sometimes. My above statement is an example as it can easily be ripped apart. Have I ever thrown someone else off that same 15-story building? How can I "know" with any certainty that you would die if you jumped?Theists like to play with words and analyze definitions to exhaustion. I'd be ashamed of myself if the only argument I had for my beliefs was that "nothing can be known for absolute certain" and "nothing is really a proven fact."How about we meet next week at a 15-story building? Or would you like to take my word for it that the fall (and sudden stop on the sidewalk below) would prove lethal? While it might not be a "proven fact" that a 120mph plummet into solid concrete will be fatal, I think we can assign a rather high level of confidence to the statement.Science is about probabilities. There is an extremely high probability that falling off a 15-story building will be fatal. But someone with more time on their hands then is good for them this is a fantastic opportunity to argue that nobody can "know" for certain anything about that fall. Just because gravity worked yesterday doesn't mean it will work tomorrow.I want to throw up when I hear this nonsense.
MaesterAuron151

Re: Something I've always wondered

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Quote:Science is about probabilities. There is an extremely high probability that falling off a 15-story building will be fatal.That's what I'm saying. You're proving my point science often claims absolute truth when in reality absolute truth is an illusion created by repetition. In the end I don't even know if I'm actually talking to you or just a figment of my subconscience mind. Sure you can claim you're real, you can tell me that I can't prove to you that I exist. But I don't have to prove I exist because I know I exist. I don't however know if anything else exists.
GOD defiles Reason

Re: Something I've always wondered

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Chris: "Science is about probabilities. There is an extremely high probability that falling off a 15-story building will be fatal. But someone with more time on their hands then is good for them this is a fantastic opportunity to argue that nobody can "know" for certain anything about that fall. Just because gravity worked yesterday doesn't mean it will work tomorrow."Gravity is just a theory.I think we should put a sticker on the physics books and give the Intelligent Falling movement equal time in the science classroom.
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