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Shakespeare Fever!

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bleachededen

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Re: Shakespeare Fever!

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I always have a problem with this play, having seen it done with Katharina seemingly sarcastically delivering this final speech, and even though most professors and Shakespeare lovers I have spoken to tend to say that Shakespeare meant for this speech to be taken "tongue in cheek," I can't help but think that maybe Shakespeare really did feel that way.

Consider all of his other female leading ladies:
--Ophelia is so weak with love for Hamlet that she is driven mad by his taunting, and commits suicide.
--Viola is a strong character, sure, but when it all boils down to it she just wants to be loved by Orsino, not as his equal, but as his mistress, which puts her even lower in his confidence than when she was his page in disguise. We can assume that perhaps they will have a more equal relationship because of the moments they've shared when she was pretending to be a man, but we don't get to see it (of course I love Twelfth Night very dearly, but my analysis still holds true), and of course she was forced to dress as a man to begin with to even gain employment by Orsino or anyone else on the island.
--Miranda is so naive and sheltered she falls in love with the first man she ever lays eyes on, as if a man other than her father really is the most beautiful sight in the world to a young woman, who would have been well educated in other matters. Enough said.
--Lady Macbeth, known to be one of Shakespeare's strongest female characters, goads Macbeth into killing MacDuff's family and brings the whole bloody mess of a play down on everyone's heads, then goes crazy when she realizes her guilt and kills herself because she can't get a figurative spot of blood off of her hand. Then there are the witches, who aren't even considered women but creatures, whom Macbeth treats with scorn and whose warnings he (obviously) ignores.
--Juliet...do I really have to talk about Juliet? Although she could be seen as a strong woman for going against her father's wishes for her to marry Paris and instead fakes her death so she can be with Romeo, obviously ending with a dagger in her chest, but if you think about it, she's going from one man's control to another, even to one who has killed her cousin (is her love for this guy she barely knows really strong enough to warrant blind faith and love even after he's proven to be a murderer?). And even though she's only known Romeo for about three or four days by the end of the play, she chooses to kill herself (for real, this time) when she finds Romeo dead. I realize she wouldn't have had much of a choice otherwise; her father would not have taken her back, even if she explained, because one way she's a ghost and no one would go near her, and the other way, she took an extreme measure and lied in order to defy his wishes, and a woman alone in that world would have gotten nowhere, except for maybe a brothel or a nunnery. I can see why she'd choose suicide, but she's still a tool of men no matter what she does.
--Desdemona...really? Desdemona is just an object. She is married to Othello, who is easily swayed in his trust in her by one small word from Iago, and without even asking her any questions, he kills her and THEN soliloquys about "oh, what have I done." He then kills himself, having been disgraced and undone by his own jealousy, and Iago gets away. Oh yeah. This is a great moral tale for relationships.
--Beatrice is actually pretty strong and independent for a Shakespeare play, but she is still "won" by Benedick, with whom she tries to match wits and suppress her feelings for during the entire play, but I will give her some credit for being one of the more clever women in Shakespeare's repertoire.
--Cordelia refuses to falsely praise her father, like her sisters, because her love is the most true (and her father knows it), but instead of seeing the truth in her words, Lear is insulted and punishes her by marrying her off to some jerk and giving her no part of his kingdom, which his two other stupid and fake daughters destroy by double crossing each other and their father, thus losing the entire kingdom to those he had tried to keep it from in the first place, and Cordelia and both of her sisters all die. Should have listened to Cordelia, Lear, you silly thing.
-All of the women in Richard III are twits, and I hate watching them, even though I love the film version starring Ian McKellan. Lady Anne, whose husband was killed by Richard, agrees to marry him just minutes after Richard confesses to killing her husband, and although she keeps her daughter from him when it becomes clear he means to kill her and marry her daughter, she is still being used completely by men.
--Portia is actually not too bad a character, but again, must disguise herself as a man in order to do the clever things she accomplishes. Then, of course, she marries, because it isn't a Shakespeare comedy without a wedding (or two or three).
--I'm not even touching anyone in A Midsummer Night's Dream, because it's a crazy play that is overdone and although I love many of Puck's speeches, I hate almost everything else going on in it.

I think I've given enough examples. Feel free to contradict me, as I would love to begin discussion on this topic, but also know that I do recognize the strengths and cleverness of many of these characters, especially given the male writer and the sexist time period, but I still see all of them as relying on males to achieve their goals, or as villains, and are therefore not painted as strong and independent on their own or in a good way.

I would love to agree that Shakespeare wrote Katharina's submission speech with his tongue in his cheek, but upon examination of the treatment of all of his other female characters, I have a very hard time accepting that notion, and think that Shakespeare was just following the ideas of the day, which was that women were dominated by men, and even clever women will be won over and married in the end. I would have written The Taming of the Shrew much differently, but then it wouldn't be The Taming of the Shrew and it wouldn't be Shakespeare, so I have to accept it for what it is. 10 Things I Hate About You, a modern, youthful adaptation of Taming of the Shrew, is my favorite movie adaptation of any of Shakespeare's plays, and even though Kat is essentially "tamed" in the end, it doesn't hold the same strong sexist submission that dominates the original Shakespeare, which is one of the reasons I can watch it without many qualms.

Anyone want to challenge me or join in the discussion? :mrgreen:
bleachededen

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Re: Shakespeare Fever!

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I'd like to share some wonderfully amusing clips from the video of The Reduced Shakespeare Company's stage performance of their Complete Works of William Shakespeare (Abridged). These guys can rap Othello, perform Hamlet in 30 seconds, and involve the audience in a Freudian interpretation of Ophelia's pre-suicidal madness. They are geniuses on and off the stage (they also have audio recordings of a "radio show," where they go into the works of Shakespeare more closely but with no less hilarity).

I hope you will enjoy them as much as I do! :)

The Othello Rap
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UC-f0drvdmM

all of Shakespeare's 12 comedies combined into 1 play
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qph4VvlNkwE

The "Play Within a Play" scene from Hamlet, performed with sock puppets
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hpgb-hJnSE4

Titus Andronicus as a cooking show
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rhiv70hBZ08

Here's the RSC official webpage, for anyone interested in their other works (which I highly recommend, as they are intelligent, clever, hilarious, and know the subjects they parody incredibly well). I have seen them live several times and listened to their "radio show" over and over, and still never get tired of their jokes. Any fan of Shakespeare will be a fan of the RSC.
http://www.reducedshakespeare.com/wp/

(The RSC also tackle The Bible, The Complete History of America, The Millenium Musical, and much more. They definitely have something for everyone!)

I really am in a Shakespeare mood this month. I've watched Romeo and Juliet and may do so again, I've been reading and posting sonnets and soliloquies, analyzing characters in my head and thinking of how I would rewrite some of the tragedies to make them less tragic ( ;) ), and I plan to watch the Kenneth Brannagh film version of Hamlet (which spares almost no line and is the most accurate and complete performance of Hamlet ever, as far as I know) again either tomorrow or Tuesday. I just can't get enough Shakespeare these days! :love:
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Re: Shakespeare Fever!

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Very nice list! I agree, Shakespeare has always come off as being quite sexist. But I have the same problem with Shakespeare as I do with Nietzsche. They're either writing as "a man of their time," and disliked women because of personal experiences or they did it as a sort of poke at society. Making the obvious more obvious so as to show people what was not frequently discussed, which I guess would be the inequality between men and women.
I realise I’m not really adding to this or challenging it. But I do appreciate you taking the time to compile that much information. :]
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bleachededen

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Re: Shakespeare Fever!

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Genocide wrote:Very nice list! I agree, Shakespeare has always come off as being quite sexist. But I have the same problem with Shakespeare as I do with Nietzsche. They're either writing as "a man of their time," and disliked women because of personal experiences or they did it as a sort of poke at society. Making the obvious more obvious so as to show people what was not frequently discussed, which I guess would be the inequality between men and women.
I realise I’m not really adding to this or challenging it. But I do appreciate you taking the time to compile that much information. :]
Thank you for your insight, I think you definitely had something to say and said it well!

And thanks for the thanks on compiling information, it really wasn't a huge effort, I just wrote down what I thought about some of Shakespeare's more prominent leading ladies. It may be a lot of information, but it was no great effort at all because I love discussing Shakespeare and sharing all the new and interesting thoughts that come into my head as I read and reflect on his works. It is a labor of love, I guess you could call, but certainly not love's labour's lost. ;)
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Re: Shakespeare Fever!

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Punny. :D

I've read plenty (but according to my profs, not enough) Shakespeare. I'm not that big of a fan.... I think it's plays like Taming of the Shrew that turn me off.
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bleachededen

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Re: Shakespeare Fever!

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Genocide wrote:Punny. :D

I've read plenty (but according to my profs, not enough) Shakespeare. I'm not that big of a fan.... I think it's plays like Taming of the Shrew that turn me off.
Oh, but there are so many more to love!

Sorry, I am a total Bard nerd, thus this thread dedicated to fanaticism of his works! 8)

I shall now share the song "What Is a Youth?" from the 1968 Franco Zefirelli film version of Romeo and Juliet, which, for me as well as many others, has become synonymous with the memory of Romeo and Juliet.

This clip has the song as sung in the movie, with various scenes collaged together to give a nice picture of the beauty of the film. I will soon post links to some of the wonderful speeches performed in the movie, as well.

Enjoy!

"What Is a Youth?"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=89BwSqKfpQU

(Lyrics)
What is a youth?
Impetuous fire.
What is a maid?
Ice and desire.
The world wags on

A rose will bloom,
it then will fade
So does a youth.
So does the fairest maid.

Comes a time when one sweet smile
Has its season for awhile
Then Love’s in love with me

Some may think only to marry.
Others will tease and tarry.
Mine is the very best parry,
Cupid he rules us all.

Caper the caper; sing me the song
Death will come soon to hush us along
Sweeter than honey and bitter as gall,
Love is a task and it never will pall.
Sweeter than honey and bitter as gall,
Cupid he rules us all.

(20 second flute interlude)

A rose will bloom, it then will fade.
So does a youth.
So does the fairest maid.


*sigh* Oh, Shakespeare, how I love thee! :love:
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Re: Shakespeare Fever!

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Haha, fair do's.

I've only read about 7 or 8 of his plays, not counting the ones I've seen so I'm not the best judge.

I've personally always disliked Romeo and Juliet, I don't mean to offend, but why do you like it so much? I'm honestly curious as to why.
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bleachededen

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Re: Shakespeare Fever!

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I actually don't like the play that much itself, just this production of it. It does have one of my favorite characters of all time, Mercutio, who gives one of my favorite speeches of all time (the Queen Mab speech which I posted earlier in this thread). I'm mentioning it so much now because I've rediscovered the beauty of the film version I've mentioned. I guess I seem to "love it so much" most likely because it is the play I know the best, because I was obsessed with it when I was a kid and can quote most of it while watching it performed, and a great deal of it just from memory. I love the first half of the play, even with the gagging lovey stuff, but after the death of Mercutio and then Tybalt, I tend to lose interest, even though I can still quote both Romeo's and Juliet's death speeches. It's not necessarily the action I'm interested in in this particular play, but the words. This play may be given too much attention and seem to be shoved down our throats, which makes us hate it, and the story is only tragic the first few times (unless you're an obsessed 10 year old, like I was ;)), the beauty of Shakespeare's words are certainly not lacking and almost beg us to reconsider it, no matter how overrated we may think it is.

At least, that is how I justify it. But I truly do leave off after Mercutio's death, not only in the play but also in the ballet scored by Sergei Prokofiev, one of my favorite composers. When I listen to or watch the ballet, I tend to either fall asleep or just turn it off after the deaths of Mercutio and Tybalt. It just seems to drag after that, and has a lot of crying and professing of love and then of course the plot twist that leads to a double suicide. But the first part is so alive with action it's hard not to love.

Ok, I guess I do love Romeo and Juliet a fair amount more than I just proclaimed. So sue me. :-P But I take no offense at your disliking it, so no worries there. To each their own.

I think another reason I seem to love Shakespeare more than my peers is that because I have studied Shakespeare extensively in school and on my own and was so obsessive as a child and Shakespeare was one of the subjects I obsessed over, I have a pretty good understanding of his language, which gives most people a pretty hard time. I don't mean to brag, and there are, of course, far better Shakespeare scholars than I, but I know his language better than most, and can not only understand what is being said as far as moving the plot, but I can also understand the humor and wit Shakespeare incorporates, which is fundamental to truly enjoying his works on the same level as we do comedies and tragedies in our own contemporary version of English. Having read most of his plays and studied the time period, I truly "get" most of his jokes and if you can understand them, they really are quite funny. I actually laugh out loud at Mercutio's antics or Hamlet's attempts at showing his friends and family that he is mad. I laugh at it as heartily as I've seen other people laugh at someone like Steve Carell, while I sit there with a blank face because I don't understand why it's funny. I guess it's just a matter of taste, as it would be, since all literature is subjective, and I have a very deep fondness for Shakespeare and maybe less for most of the humor that is mainstream now. I'm an odd bird, what else can I say? :-P

If I were to profess favorites, I would generally say that Twelfth Night is my favorite Shakespeare comedy, and Hamlet my favorite tragedy.

I think I answered your question, but I also did a lot of babbling, so forgive me for being so obtuse and crazy. That's just me. Also, reading Don Quixote and watching and reading Shakespeare has had an obvious effect on my writing, so I apologize if I sound like a pompous windbag. As a writer, I am very easily influenced by the style of writing I am reading. Just ignore me if you have to. :blush:
bleachededen

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Re: Shakespeare Fever!

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A long one but a good one: Hamlet's soliloquy, "O, what a rogue and peasant slave am I!"

***

from Hamlet, Act II, scene ii

O, what a rogue and peasant slave am I!
Is it not monstrous that this player here,
But in a fiction, in a dream of passion,
Could force his soul so to his own conceit
That from her working all his visage wann'd,
Tears in his eyes, distraction in's aspect,
A broken voice, and his whole function suiting
With forms to his conceit? and all for nothing!
For Hecuba!
What's Hecuba to him, or he to Hecuba,
That he should weep for her? What would he do,
Had he the motive and the cue for passion
That I have? He would drown the stage with tears
And cleave the general ear with horrid speech,
Make mad the guilty and appal the free,
Confound the ignorant, and amaze indeed
The very faculties of eyes and ears. Yet I,
A dull and muddy-mettled rascal, peak,
Like John-a-dreams, unpregnant of my cause,
And can say nothing; no, not for a king,
Upon whose property and most dear life
A damn'd defeat was made. Am I a coward?
Who calls me villain? breaks my pate across?
Plucks off my beard, and blows it in my face?
Tweaks me by the nose? gives me the lie i' the throat,
As deep as to the lungs? who does me this?
Ha!
'Swounds, I should take it: for it cannot be
But I am pigeon-liver'd and lack gall
To make oppression bitter, or ere this
I should have fatted all the region kites
With this slave's offal: bloody, bawdy villain!
Remorseless, treacherous, lecherous, kindless villain!
O, vengeance!
Why, what an ass am I! This is most brave,
That I, the son of a dear father murder'd,
Prompted to my revenge by heaven and hell,
Must, like a whore, unpack my heart with words,
And fall a-cursing, like a very drab,
A scullion!
Fie upon't! foh! About, my brain! I have heard
That guilty creatures sitting at a play
Have by the very cunning of the scene
Been struck so to the soul that presently
They have proclaim'd their malefactions;
For murder, though it have no tongue, will speak
With most miraculous organ. I'll have these players
Play something like the murder of my father
Before mine uncle: I'll observe his looks;
I'll tent him to the quick: if he but blench,
I know my course. The spirit that I have seen
May be the devil: and the devil hath power
To assume a pleasing shape; yea, and perhaps
Out of my weakness and my melancholy,
As he is very potent with such spirits,
Abuses me to damn me: I'll have grounds
More relative than this: the play 's the thing
Wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king.
Exit

***
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Re: Shakespeare Fever!

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Well said, well stated, and you did not ramble... much. :D

To be honest I always enjoyed Macbeth better than Hamlet, maybe because it was Shakespeare's shortest? Maybe because it inspired The Sound and the Fury, a book I enjoyed- even through it's awkward parts.

Twelfth Night or What You Will is one of my favorites, but I also really enjoy A Midsummer Nights Dream. I'm not sure, but I've heard it was his easiest to understand? Plus I can't help but like Helena. She reminds me of a modern day geek. Though the ending ruins it for me... Why do the endings always make me so angry?
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