http://thesunmagazine.org/issues/369/th ... son?page=2

Nice rational worldview, huh?

As Harris said, it is an obviously inflammatory way of making the point. Anyone in public office, for example, could never say that.

But it is an empirical question whether religion or rape causes more harm in the world. It is an empirical fact that religion causes A LOT of harm in the world. Unless you want to play the unconvincing "that is not real religion" game, when the religious texts advocate killing people among other things. So is it really that outrageous? I'd say the evidence is pretty obviously on Harris's side.

How else do you want to argue it? That religion can motivate people to do good things too? That doesn't change the point, although you could try to do a cost/benefit analysis. Or do you want to play the Stalin/Mao game? Which also wouldn't change the point.

The example Harris gives below is not even immediately obvious, but is an example of great harm being done by religion:

[Christian fundamentalists] are, however, quite sanguine about human suffering. Their opposition to stem-cell research, for instance, is prolonging the misery of tens of millions of people at this moment. Michael Specter wrote an article in the New Yorker titled “Political Science” about how the Christian Right is distorting the government’s relationship to science. One example is that we now have a vaccine for the sexually transmitted human papillomavirus, which causes cervical cancer, of which five thousand women die every year in the United States. The vaccine, which can be given to girls at age eleven or twelve, is safe and effective. Yet evangelical Christians at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention — political appointees — have argued that we should not use this vaccine, because it will remove one of the natural deterrents to premarital sex. Reginald Finger, who’s on the immunization advisory committee of the CDC, has said that even if we had a vaccine against HIV, he would have to think long and hard about whether to use it, because it might encourage premarital sex.

I was not aware of these political appointees, is he wrong?

Nice, rational thread title.

Sam Harris was "just being inflammatory" but he really didn't mean what he said about preferring rape over religion. After all, he's got to get us to make the comparison for ourselves.
Any rational person can see there's nothing good about religion!

Any rational person does understand that some good HAS come as a result of religion.
No good can happen as a result of rape. NOTHING AT ALL.

But Sam was just being inflammatory to make us understand the logic of it all.

Now lets forget what he said and talk about God and the eveil he makes people do.

Here's what Sam said for the spin professors:

If I could wave a magic wand and get rid of either rape or religion, I would not hesitate to get rid of religion.

Arent these "new" atheists thoughtful and sensitive towards women?!

Has Sam ever been raped??

ant wrote:Sam Harris was "just being inflammatory" but he really didn't mean what he said about preferring rape over religion. After all, he's got to get us to make the comparison for ourselves.
Any rational person can see there's nothing good about religion!

Any rational person does understand that some good HAS come as a result of religion.
No good can happen as a result of rape. NOTHING AT ALL.

But Sam was just being inflammatory to make us understand the logic of it all.

Now lets forget what he said and talk about God and the eveil he makes people do.

What a surprise, you're not engaging in the actual empirical argument.

This would be a good strategy if you were on a talk show and wanted to do a "Sam Harris outrage" segment, but it's not a serious response.

ant wrote: Arent these "new" atheists thoughtful and sensitive towards women?!

You mean like the religion-motivated violence and oppression against women throughout the world?

Harris is right though.

Rape is rape, and is a freaking horrible thing. Much worse than attributing the happy accidents of life to a supernatural entity. And if that's all that religion was then it would be a no brainer, keep religion, get rid of rape.

But that's not all religion does.

Religion causes rapes.

kidnapping.
http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/missin ... or-n352866

Child abduction and selling into sex slavery.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/05/0 ... 70034.html

child abuse.
http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/20 ... f-religion

homicide, including of one's own children
http://tribune.com.pk/story/704198/over ... -daughter/

intentional disfigurement.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 66753.html

War.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crusades

genocide
Deuteronomy 7:1-2 When the Lord your God brings you into the land you are entering to possess and drives out before you many nations . . . then you must destroy them totally. Make no treaty with them, and show them no mercy

Torture.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inquisition

encourages slavery.
Exodus Chapter 21, verse 1:
Now these are the ordinances which you shall set before them. When you buy a Hebrew slave, he shall serve six years, and in the seventh he shall go out free, for nothing. If he comes in single, he shall go out single; if he comes in married, then his wife shall go out with him. If his master gives him a wife and she bears him sons or daughters, the wife and her children shall be her master's and he shall go out alone. But if the slave plainly says, 'I love my master, my wife, and my children; I will not go out free,' then his master shall bring him to God, and he shall bring him to the door or the doorpost; and his master shall bore his ear through with an awl; and he shall serve him for life.


and that's just what the leaders of religion intentionally do.

What about discouraging curiosity.
placating people with fantasy answers to real world problems.
resisting practical medical advances.
sex education
climate change
homophobia

the list goes on and on.

Your thoughts about Sam Harris' stance toward women is on point, as always.
On the flip side, if you want to get rid of rape instead of religion what does that say about how you feel about child sex trafficking? have YOU ever been sold into sexual bondage as a 12 year old!?!?!?!?!?!? <-- add as many punctuation marks as your false outrage thinks is justified.

Yeah. There's an empirical argument Sam is making here: no good has come from religion. It's worse than rape.

Youll do anything to protect The Prophet, huh? Even resort to spinning sh** so people think it smells good.

Another atheist protecting the prophet by cherry picking while ignoring everything else in history.

Applause people! We are witnesses to people defending rape over religion!.
Dont you just love these fallacious sheeple of the prophet!