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RickU's Member post

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RickU

RickU's Member post

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Hullo, I'm Rick. I'm a 26 year old, former Marine. I currently believe I'm an agnostic, but I've been informed I should likely call myself an Atheist and I've come here to find out why. Edited by: RickU at: 7/13/04 6:03 am
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Mr. P

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Agnosticism is more of a 'jury is out' feeling about god; neither a denial or acceptance due to insufficient facts. Atheists just do not believe in god. Non-theists do not believe in a god at all.If you would like a good book to understand our belief systems, try Michael Shermer's "How We Believe" (see the discussion on this board as well). He touches on the different 'isms' regarding belief and not.I responded to your comment in the Evo v. Creat. board asking which foundation you build upon, but now I know!Welcome to the board. Hope to see you around the Evo. v. Creat. forum often!Mr. P. The one thing of which I am positive is that there is much of which to be negative - Mr. P.
RickU

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Glad to be here and I look forward to that discussion. Edited by: RickU at: 7/1/04 12:34 am
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Chris OConnor

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RickWelcome to BookTalk! We can discuss the atheist vs. agnostic issue soon. I'm exhausted and going to bed now though......but I'm glad you decided to join!! Chris "For Every Winner, There Are Dozens Of Losers. Odds Are You're One Of Them"
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Rick & Mr. PI'm actually not fond of Shermer's book for explaining the differences between atheism and agnosticism. The best book I've ever read on the subject would be George Smith's, "Atheism: The Case Against God."The problem I have with how Shermer approaches it is that he throws in the towel too easily. The dictionaries use the wrong defintion for atheism, and Shermer seems to be willing to sit back and allow this to happen.I'm not sure off hand which chapter or page Shermer points out that dictionaries don't actually print defintions - the print "usages." Shermer says that most people use the word atheist to mean, "one that claims that God doesn't exist." Well, they're wrong. Yes, there are indeed atheists that make such a claim and truly believe it, but they are a subset or minority. Most atheists simply don't see enough evidence, and therefore don't believe. But they certainly don't have an actual belief that God doesn't and cannot exist. They simply lack the belief....which is the exact defintion according to the etymology of the term.Just because most people use a word a certain way doesn't mean that word should lose its defintion. Most people are theists that detest or at least don't appreciate or respect atheists. Of course they pick a definition that casts a shadow on atheists. This has pissed me off for a very long time and I fully intend to do my best to do something about it in the future. I'm brainstorming right now about how this can best be accomplished. I'd like to see all of the major dictionaries change their definitions...and this will be the goal.Why do I care?Think about how much time atheists waste defending a position they don't even hold. I've literally spent dozens of hours in senseless debates about the definition of these basic terms, and all because the entire theistic population opts to be ignorant about there true defintions, and use them improperly.I suppose we should carry this discussion to The Evolution vs. Creationism forum for further discussion. Many members don't read peoples journal threads often enough for us to have this conversation here. Chris "For Every Winner, There Are Dozens Of Losers. Odds Are You're One Of Them"Edited by: Chris OConnor  at: 7/3/04 8:31 am
RickU

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Started a new post and moved last comment into that post in Evo vs Creation
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RickGood idea. I'll post more over there. You can still use this thread, but such a conversation will simply get more activity on the E vs C forum.Chris "For Every Winner, There Are Dozens Of Losers. Odds Are You're One Of Them"
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Re: Agnosticism

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I had absolutely no use for agnosticism until, in the course of reading one of our books, I came across Huxley's explanation of what he actually meant: www.infidels.org/library/historical/tho ... t_02.htmlI still think "agnosticism" as it is generally used is a meally mouthed cop out. Why be agnostic about that? Where's the agnosticism about, say, whether pee monsters are going to jump up out of the toilet and bite my ass? After all, they are just as likely... yea, right. Much more likely actually.To say "we don't know" is to surrender to special pleading for nonsense, just because many people are attracted to that nonsense. If you make yourself really small, you can externalize virtually everything. Daniel Dennett, 1984
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Quote:To say "we don't know" is to surrender to special pleading for nonsense, just because many people are attracted to that nonsense. I don't think so at all. My "we don't know" is validated. I cannot scientifically disprove God(s). That's my standard for belief, (scientific proof that is). It's entirely rational. I'm not quibbling or being "mealymouthed". I'm acknowledging the fact that I cannot scientifically disprove someone elses belief. It's not the logical course for me, but since I can't disprove it, I cannot positively affirm that I'm an athiest.
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Re: Agnosticism

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Quote:whether pee monsters are going to jump up out of the toilet and bite my ass? uh...this happened to you too!? I thought it was only me!Mr. Pee. The one thing of which I am positive is that there is much of which to be negative - Mr. P.
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