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The NT was written in the 2nd century

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Vishnu
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Re: The NT was written in the 2nd century

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So, what was your favorite part of the videos?
Well, as a fan of The Simpsons and Family Guy(just finished watching a new Simpsons as a matter of fact), a reference to them always scores brownie points with me! :D Although, that bit probably was a little drawn out.

Anyway, as far as the relevant subject matter... well... I guess as evidenced by my linking to Dr. Price's talks on the subject as well, I always find material about Marcionite origins for biblical texts very intriguing.
I also enjoy watching the part about how the popularity of the Diatessaron and/or other synoptic harmonies effected the transmission of the gospel texts over the years. I've replayed that portion several times.
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Frank 013
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Re: The NT was written in the 2nd century

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Yes... the Simpsons and Family Guy ROCK!

That portion was drawn out, however that is a point that needs to get hammered home with most theists so I understand why Godalmighty did what he did...

I also like the Marcionite discussions and the parts about Marcion himself... GodAlmighty's claim there (while not conclusive) is plausible.

Later
That which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.
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Frank 013
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Re: The NT was written in the 2nd century

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What did you guys think of the Jesus Ben Sada theory?

With Jesus being stoned, rescued from the tree and living until old age… and the NT being written loosely about him (in the second century) because he was seen alive after his “execution”.
That which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.
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Re: The NT was written in the 2nd century

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I've heard the resuscitation theory before. Certainly plausible, but only if it is granted that there even was a historical Ben Stada or any such person at the root of the Christ myth, which of course, such a person is lacking in the evidence department.
But there were certainly stories of people being rescued from crucifixion and out of tombs. Josephus himself said as he was passing by some crucifixions, he recognized a few of the guys and had them taken down. If I recall correctly, two of them died, but one managed to survive. So right there you have an allegedly historical case of someone surviving crucifixion, and reported by the same source that is THE go to source by apologists for "proving" the historicity of a Jesus Christ.
Also, although fictional, there is Cariton's story of Carius & Calliriway, in which Calliriway is mistaken for dead and buried, but then kidnapped by grave robbers, and thus Carius, finding the empty tomb, thought the gods had taken her up to heaven. Carius later in the story is himself crucified but rescued. So, we see all of these elements, both in fiction & "history" floating around at the same time christianity was getting the ball rolling.
So I think such a tale about Ben Stada would not be surprising to find at all.
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Re: The NT was written in the 2nd century

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Vishnu
I've heard the resuscitation theory before. Certainly plausible, but only if it is granted that there even was a historical Ben Stada or any such person at the root of the Christ myth, which of course, such a person is lacking in the evidence department.
True… no evidence either way… but I do find it interesting that those kinds of things were happening (surviving a crucifixion) because I am sure that people would think the person a ghost… especially back then.

GodAlmighty does break open a few new possibilities in the Christ myth… all of which are far more probable than what has been handed to us in the past.

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Re: The NT was written in the 2nd century

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tat tvam asi wrote:Good point Frank. The deeper questions are how in the hell has a blind man read the posts and typed responses? With help from some one? If so, then why the f!@ck wouldn't the same helper also click play on the video series and continue helping? Oh he's blind alright, blind to logic and reason. And that post was even more idiotic than the former posts...

You highlight text, move it to MSword or another program which has a reading function.
You dictate responses using DragonSpeech program by Nuance or a similar program, and have your text read back to you for corrections, despite Nuance claims, my program is only ~70% accurate.

You guys are a real trip. I have a friend who is a VP for a fortune 100 company. He is a CPA and JD and has been blind from birth. Of course there are all kinds of blindness arn't there?
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Re: The NT was written in the 2nd century

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Vishnu wrote:I've heard the resuscitation theory before. Certainly plausible, but only if it is granted that there even was a historical Ben Stada or any such person at the root of the Christ myth, which of course, such a person is lacking in the evidence department.
But there were certainly stories of people being rescued from crucifixion and out of tombs. Josephus himself said as he was passing by some crucifixions, he recognized a few of the guys and had them taken down. If I recall correctly, two of them died, but one managed to survive. So right there you have an allegedly historical case of someone surviving crucifixion, and reported by the same source that is THE go to source by apologists for "proving" the historicity of a Jesus Christ.
Also, although fictional, there is Cariton's story of Carius & Calliriway, in which Calliriway is mistaken for dead and buried, but then kidnapped by grave robbers, and thus Carius, finding the empty tomb, thought the gods had taken her up to heaven. Carius later in the story is himself crucified but rescued. So, we see all of these elements, both in fiction & "history" floating around at the same time christianity was getting the ball rolling.
So I think such a tale about Ben Stada would not be surprising to find at all.
I suggest that you read The Crucifixion of Jesus, Second Edition, Completely Revised and Expanded: A Forensic InquiryFrederick T. Zugibe, he deals extensively with the swoon theory. He also explains how the scouraging would have been sufficient to cause death even if Jesus has not been crucified and then pierced with a speer.

Are you really citing a fictional story as a defense?
Name the people who were rescued from crucifixion? Were they scouraged first? What is your source?
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Re: The NT was written in the 2nd century

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Vishnu wrote:
We can't discuss the videos because there it no text provided to base the discussion on.
That's a lie. WE can, and WE have because WE actually watched the videos. Now, if YOU can't discuss the videos because YOU have NOT watched them nor found a transcript of them, then YOU are just shit out of luck. No one is stopping you from watching but you.

I know that in my own experience, and I am confident in saying I speak for many people here, I can discuss videos I have actually seen, and I do it quite often, even without EVER having a written transcript. I've discussed many, MANY movies without ever having a written transcript of it. I've likewise discussed many a television program, vhs, and dvd with people even though none of us ever had a written transcript.

How were we able to accomplish such an amazingly impossible feat you ask?

Because we all WATCHED the videos. THAT is how we all obtained information about them and thus were able to discuss them.

You repeatedly demand a transcript in a tone as though it is somehow OWED to you. Now, if someone does do such thing, then that's good, they are a nice person. But NO ONE, not even the maker of these videos owes it to you to make a transcript and if we continue to opt not to make one then none of us have done a damn thing wrong. We are not under an obligation to include you in the discussion at all, and we are especially not obligated to include you in the discussion on your own terms, i.e., you will only read a written transcript rather than watch.

If YOU refuse to WATCH a VIDEO, then that is on you and no one else and so you are just shit out of luck. And if you have no knowledge of the contents of the videos, that does not mean you get to still participate in the discussion about it by just trying to 'guess' what is in them until someone provides the contents to you on your own terms.

If some folks are having a conversation right in front of you in Spanish, and you happen to not be able to speak Spanish, those folks are NOT obligated to translate THEIR conversation into Spanish for you just so you can be included in the conversation. Nope, if YOU have refused to learn Spanish then you are just shit out of luck- you don't get to participate in the conversation. And just because no one has provided a translation of their conversation for you does not mean you get to interject yourself into the conversation anyway even though you have no knowledge of the subject of the discussion, and just because YOU lack that knowledge does not mean you get to just 'guess' or 'assume' what the subject of their conversation is about and just interject comments into their discussion anyway. Nope, no one is under any obligation to just let you into the conversation anyway nor does anyone owe it to you to translate it, and if they decide not to translate their conversation, they have not done a damn thing wrong and they are not being rude or inconsiderate for doing so. The fact that YOU won't learn Spanish is all on you.
Now, if someone DOES translate the conversation for you, then that's cool, they are a nice person, doing you a FAVOR that they do not owe you. But if they opt not to, then you are just shit out of luck, and just out of the conversation.

WE have watched the videos, and so WE will continue to discuss these videos as we have been, since WE actually know the contents and thus are in a position to discuss them, unlike yourself.

That being said, I think I'll now join the movement to stop feeding the troll.
You can't discuss them without resorting to reducing the material to text. What would you say? I really loved the section starting at 4:50 of Video 5? No, you have to explain what you liked or disliked about the section and reduce it to text. If I am wrong, discuss them without detailing any material from the video.
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Re: The NT was written in the 2nd century

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Frank 013 wrote:
Stahrwe
What would you say if I told you I was blind?
How do the blind watch the videos?
I begin this with the upmost and sincere apology… to everyone I told I would not post to stahrwe… this needs to be addressed.

Stahrwe… if you are blind why not say so from the beginning? Why imply… no, actually outright say you will not watch the videos and let us think you are capable of the feat… when you actually are not… and besides you can still listen to them can’t you?

Your comments were leading and if you are blind dishonest... and if your not this is just a sick attempt at attention.

That is what I would say if you were blind.

Bye, bye now…
Why would it be any of your business?
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Re: The NT was written in the 2nd century

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I am not going to bother reviewing the recent posts for the reference to Marcion. I have already posted regarding him. His writings were not the original documents for the epistles of Paul. Instead Marcion took Paul's Epistles and edited them to suit his purpose. His plagurism was a major reason that the Church initiated a committee to canonize the NT.

REview my previous posts on this discussion for the references and full explanation.
n=Infinity
Sum n = -1/12
n=1

where n are natural numbers.
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