Respect isn't always about the tone you present. There is a great deal of etiquette as well. For example, this very post is bad etiquette. I am not staying on topic. If I were to express my distaste of some subjective patterns I see in another person's debate style by creating an acronym, that would also be off topic. Also, engaging in a discussion where you disagree with the author without reading the book is bad etiquette.

Dawn wrote:Just checked my local library for this title. They have it! Will be checking it out... What's a 'troll' anyway? I find Stahrwe very respectful in his posts unlike some of the responses. Could it be the topic that's raising the ire, not the messenger?

I'm sure the topic has something to do with it. I'll admit, I have a very short fuse with Stahrwe. He has a long history of disruptive behavior here. He makes a lot of noise.

Wikipedia: In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room, or blog, with the primary intent of provoking other users into a desired emotional response[1] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.

Pointing to the obvious again, this thread is about Sam Harris' book. We now have a discussion going about each chapter, so why not use those threads and abandon this one. If stahrwe and Dawn want to continue on with a discussion of what "fear of the Lord" means to them or in a biblical context, they can post in the Christianity and the Bible forum. (Better use could be made of that forum.) It might be interesting to hear something about the topic, since fearing God as the beginning of wisdom (Proverbs) seems to require explanation. There could be two or more different Hebrew words that are all translated into English as "fear," for example.

Interbane wrote:I'm still honestly somewhat sick from reading that garbage. To think that people are actually tricked into believing it. I had recently been considering how I was going to raise my son, as far as discipline. Stahrwe's post brought back memories of my own upbringing. Where I would fear my father, and my love for him was reduced. I never want my son to fear me. It may be an effective discipline tool, but it is disgusting, and there are other ways of raising your children.

Stahrwe, could you remove your post and merely post a link instead?

Is there some reason to do so?

geo wrote:

Dawn wrote:
Fortunately both rational thought and belief in the God who enables it are both alive and well in 2010. It's really not so incomprehensible...nor is it embarrassing.

Belief in God is one thing. What was posted is just vacuous. And it has nothing to do with Wright's The End of Faith, which is the book we're supposed to be discussing here. Stahrwe has stated that he refuses to read the book because he doesn't want to give Sam Harris any money, yet he continues to post on this thread. I call that troll behavior. His intention is only to disrupt.

First of all, you do not know my intention but I will state, for the record that it is NOT to disrupt, if it were I would pursue a much different course.

Second, while I did and do resist adding to SH's income or prestige, I also stated that I found an online source for the book, and for the record I don't believe that I ever said that I refused to read it.

Finally, I have been called a troll since some of my first posts. The term was not applicable then and it is not now. I call you out on using the term because I believe it is intended to label and marginalize me.

Interbane wrote:Respect isn't always about the tone you present. There is a great deal of etiquette as well. For example, this very post is bad etiquette. I am not staying on topic. If I were to express my distaste of some subjective patterns I see in another person's debate style by creating an acronym, that would also be off topic. Also, engaging in a discussion where you disagree with the author without reading the book is bad etiquette.

I find this statement amazing. How many times is the Bible critized on BT without the critic having read it? During the TEoG discussion it was obvious that the author had not only not read the Bible but wasn't familiar with it. How many times have I tried to get BT members to pariticpate in a systematic reading of the Bible? Go back to those discussions and the ones leading up to it and see the comments.

DWill wrote:Pointing to the obvious again, this thread is about Sam Harris' book. We now have a discussion going about each chapter, so why not use those threads and abandon this one. If stahrwe and Dawn want to continue on with a discussion of what "fear of the Lord" means to them or in a biblical context, they can post in the Christianity and the Bible forum. (Better use could be made of that forum.) It might be interesting to hear something about the topic, since fearing God as the beginning of wisdom (Proverbs) seems to require explanation. There could be two or more different Hebrew words that are all translated into English as "fear," for example.

"Blessed are the peacemakers..." --Matt.5:9 Thanks for smoothing out all the fuss. Bless you. Certainly didn't mean to throw us all off topic... Will see about finding my way to the chapter threads...