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1. In The Beginning

#86: June - Aug. 2010 (Fiction)
bleachededen

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Re: 1. In The Beginning

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GaryG48 wrote:I just read Chapter 1. This is well done. I know I am missing some of the more subtle allusions but its okay; can always looks stuff up later. Crawly/Crowley is going to be fun to ger to know. I love his wise-crack, he has trouble comming up with bad stuff to do to humans, they are CREATIVE and can therefore think of and do much more bad stuff to each other than he can dream up.
Exactly! And that's what I love about Gaiman and Pratchett here -- that they suggest that humans are their own worst enemies, and even the minions of the Evil One can't hurt them as badly as they could hurt themselves! It's hilarious and deadly serious and true at the exact same time, and that is one of the aspects of this book that I totally adore! :)
Seraphim wrote:I really like that conversation between the two of them. In a sense, it makes Aziraphale seem human. He thought he was doing good, and yet, he was afraid that what he thought was a good deed may end up being bad. It's a constant struggle that we, as humans, deal with as well. Perhaps this is why it was believed best that humans did not know the difference between good and evil. Then we wouldn't be second-guessing our actions. :D
This is a very interesting insight, Seraphim. Every time the Garden of Eden story comes up in religious discussions, the question "Why would knowing good from evil be a bad thing?" always comes up, and this suggestion (the bolded sentences in the quote above) hits that nail right on the head. If all you know is God's plan, all you will follow is God's plan. But if you know that there is good (God) AND bad, then you start asking questions, and we all know that God hates it when people (and angels) question His plan. Very well done here. I'm so excited to keep going! :)
Seraphim wrote:I really am intrigued by Crawly and the fact that, as you said, he may not be the agent of evil he ought to be. I'm always one to try to see the good in everyone, and Crawly provides that little hope that there is good in everyone, that nobody is wholly evil, not even a servant of Evil.
Yes. I'm glad you feel this way, too. You will continue to do so, and I like that you suggest there is good in everyone, even in a demon like Crawly/Crowley (Aziraphale will agree with you ;)).

I think we're getting off to a very good start! I can't wait to see what further insights will be revealed the more we read. Thanks for being so awesome, guys! Keep it coming! :up:
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Re: 1. In The Beginning

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This opening chapter really does set the stage for much more to come. I love the comraderie betweek C and A. I particularly enjoyed the sense that neither of them seems to know what they're doing. There is a lot of foreshadowing here so it bears re-reading.
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lindad_amato wrote:This opening chapter really does set the stage for much more to come. I love the comraderie betweek C and A. I particularly enjoyed the sense that neither of them seems to know what they're doing. There is a lot of foreshadowing here so it bears re-reading.
Absolutely!! Glad you're having fun so far! :)
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20 more pages to go in "Wind Up Bird", and then I'm all yours bleach! :)

I quickly read a portion of "Good Omens" and it did capture my attention. I'll re- read these pages and jump in.

It looks like a very happy discussion with all the smiley faces.
bleachededen

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:lol:

It's an awesome discussion so far, but I may be abusing the smilies a bit. It's so hard to convey emotion without them, though! But yes, this book and the discussion it is producing deserves all the smilies it wants! :D
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Seraphim wrote:Ahh...how could I forget the sword? I really like that conversation between the two of them. In a sense, it makes Aziraphale seem human. He thought he was doing good, and yet, he was afraid that what he thought was a good deed may end up being bad. It's a constant struggle that we, as humans, deal with as well. Perhaps this is why it was believed best that humans did not know the difference between good and evil. Then we wouldn't be second-guessing our actions.

I really am intrigued by Crawly and the fact that, as you said, he may not be the agent of evil he ought to be. I'm always one to try to see the good in everyone, and Crawly provides that little hope that there is good in everyone, that nobody is wholly evil, not even a servant of Evil.
I love these comments! This book is hysterical! I love how neither demon or angel want to see the world to end. And both demon and angel have human qualities. Which would then lead to, humans have both demonic and angelic tendencies. And I tend to think this is true. I really like this aspect to the novel, I can identify with both of them.

And all cassette tapes lead to "Queen". Got to love it!

"Good Omens" reminds me of another novel, "God Knows", Joseph Heller. It's hysterical too!

Bleach, I have read a few things by Gaiman, but this is my first read by Pratchett, would you say that the voice in the writing comes more from Pratchett? Gaiman does love pop culture, and can be funny as hell, but the wit in this novel does not sound like Gaiman to me. How do you think they collaborated together on this novel? Can you spot the contrabutions from each author?
bleachededen

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Suzanne wrote:Bleach, I have read a few things by Gaiman, but this is my first read by Pratchett, would you say that the voice in the writing comes more from Pratchett? Gaiman does love pop culture, and can be funny as hell, but the wit in this novel does not sound like Gaiman to me. How do you think they collaborated together on this novel? Can you spot the contrabutions from each author?
Only just. I've never read anything by Pratchett, so all I know about how their contribution worked out is from reading their interviews and essays at the end of the book. I think it's fairly evenly spread, although things like the tapes turning into Queen and Heaven having horrible music definitely sound like Gaiman to me. The naming and repetition of those names also feels like Gaiman, and the way the supernatural forces react and interact also seems very much like Gaiman, to me.

I read an article online (which I believe I posted in one of the biography threads) that had them explaining that they each took a set of characters and wrote their parts, then switched characters and wrote theirs, so that both of them had written a bit of every character. I also believe it said that at first Gaiman took the Horseman and Pratchett took the Them, but in the end they decided that they couldn't really say exactly how much time each one had spent with which character and so on. So although I see what you're saying about the wit being a bit different, I still feel Gaiman's presence very heavily, which, of course, is a great thing, for me. I will say this book is a bit more "Britishy" than other Gaiman novels, a bit more like Douglas Adams than he usually is, and that is where I would say I can definitely see Terry Pratchett's involvement.

That's as close to an answer as I can give, and I suppose a fan of Terry Pratchett might say something completely different.

Let me know when you (everyone reading!) get to the Horsemen, as I think they're incredibly well handled, their personalities perfectly fitting modern society, and brilliantly sardonically hilarious, and I can't wait to hear what everyone else has to say about them! :)
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Yes.....I'm running in here late after my out-of-town absence. I was wondering how they collaborated in this as well. I haven't read anything from either author, though I have been looking at a couple Gaiman novels to add to my to-do list, so I had nothing to compare to. Thanks for the explanation! :)
Deep in the human unconscious is a pervasive need for a logical universe that makes sense. But the real universe is always one step beyond logic. ~ Frank Herbert, Dune
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I've not found my old copy. I might buy a new one, hopefully a cheap one. Notice the dramtis personae at the beginning of the book-- In the beginning , the cast has been set for the play to begin and let the story march till the end. ( if there's any) :)
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Re: 1. In The Beginning

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I like that you suggest there is good in everyone, even in a demon like Crawly/Crowley (Aziraphale will agree with you ;)).
How would Az agree that there is good in a demon... I had the impression that he was the one who thought that because a demon IS evil their actions will be as such without there being a way to help it.


I enjoyed this first opening little hors d'oeuvre. It sets a good mood for the rest of story. The two main characters are introduced and the writing truly allows their personalities to shine through. You can tell that the two are good friends right from the start. Because of differences of opinion they've had to work at their relationship and have spent so much time together (an investment for both) that they have become more like family.

There is the noble but less witty Aziraphale and the less noble but humorous Crowley. Opposites do seem to attract and you can't have one without the other. It's suitable that these two are best friends. They possibly may not be able to exist if not for their counterpart.

There are many dynamic duos throughout literature like this. Rabelais' Pantagruel and Panurge come to mind. One noble and the other a wily and humorous rogue.

I also noticed the rain thing. How it hadn't been invented but a thunderstorm was approaching. I haven't read East of Eden and I don't think I caught the reference. I also noticed with a grin how Az was responsible for fire. Throughout the book I've found that angels and demons are responsible for a lot. I'm considering putting this book on my non-fiction shelf after I'm done with it.
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