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Why is Don Quixote such a classic?

#82: April - May 2010 (Fiction)
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Robert Tulip

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Re: Why is Don Quixote such a classic?

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thanks bleachededen, blogging the blah. Some one earlier suggested we should just read part one of Don Quixote for now, and return to Part 2 in a year. That gave me an excuse to stop reading at the end of Part 1, while I work up the energy for my tilt at part 2.

Cervantes is a great master novelist, and there are depths of style and strategy in Don Quixote that readers can easily miss. The intent can be covered over by our thoughts about our own situation and our comparison to familiar reference points, for example slapstick comedy, as we read. That is why I compare reading this book to Cervantes' parable of the windmills; just as Don Q saw giants, we see in the book what we want to see and are capable of seeing. We all read with our own internal dialogue giving a silent running commentary. Our capacity to listen and learn is partly a function of how powerful our own self-talk is and our capacity to switch off our internal dialogue.

Your comment about the casual cruelty towards the insane is interesting, and shows the humane ethical intent of the book, that really when light is shone on such conduct we can see that people should be treated with dignity even if they are a few marbles short of a full set. It is like bear baiting. Nowadays people regard it as intolerably cruel because of the malicious delight in the suffering of others, but we still tolerate horrible cruelty to pigs and chickens in the name of commercial agriculture, just because the motive is profit rather than malice.
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DWill

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Re: Why is Don Quixote such a classic?

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bleachededen wrote:I am growing ever more tired of this book. I can't wait to finally finish it and read something else.
When will it end? :(
Whether a book was written last month or is 400 years old and has been aging in a barrel and is now commonly referred to as a classic, the process of reacting to it and assessing its qualities is the same. I like your fearless approach to this classic book. We can see that the reactions to it are no less diverse than they would be if we were talking about the latest Ian McEwan or Jodi Piccoult effort. I don't want to seem peevish, but labeling a book a classic and then asking for the reasons why is a little bit of a set-up. It's okay for us to look at it as if we're unaware that it wears this crown of a classic novel.
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Robert Tulip

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Re: Why is Don Quixote such a classic?

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Peevish?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2002/ma ... ties.books
News
World news
Don Quixote is the world's best book say the world's top authors

Angelique Chrisafis, arts correspondent
The Guardian, Wednesday 8 May 2002 16.21 BST
Don Quixote, the tale of a Spanish knight driven mad by reading too many chivalric romances, was yesterday voted the best book of all time in a survey of around 100 of the world's best authors.
"If there is one novel you should read before you die, it is Don Quixote," the Nigerian author Ben Okri said at the Norwegian Nobel Institute as he announced the results of history's most expansive authors' poll. "Don Quixote has the most wonderful and elaborated story, yet it is simple."

Around 100 well-known authors from 54 countries voted for the "most meaningful book of all time" in a poll organised by editors at the Norwegian Book Clubs in Oslo.

Voters included Doris Lessing, Salman Rushdie, Nadine Gordimer, Wole Soyinka, Seamus Heaney, Carlos Fuentes and Norman Mailer. Isabel Allende boycotted the exercise on the grounds that she objected to "book surveys".

The Swedish children's author Astrid Lindgren managed to vote just before her death in January, and her book Pippi Longstocking made the list.

Lessing said the authors aimed to spark a thirst for reading in a young generation that preferred TV and Playstations. "They should be called educated barbarians," she said.

Miguel de Cervantes' tale of misguided heroism gained 50% more votes than any other book, eclipsing works by Shakespeare, Homer and Tolstoy.

Ten authors got more than one book on to the list, which was not ranked. After Cervantes, Fyodor Dostoevsky emerged as the most worthwhile read with four books listed: Crime and Punishment, The Idiot, The Possessed and The Brothers Karamazov.

The only Shakespeare plays the authors agreed on were Hamlet, King Lear and Othello.

The Bard was matched by Franz Kafka, who was virtually unknown during his lifetime. His three angst-ridden tales of grotesque alienation on the list were The Trial, The Castle and the Complete Stories.

Three works by Leo Tolstoy made it: War and Peace, Anna Karenina and The Death of Ivan Ilyich and Other Stories.

The American William Faulkner and the Briton Virginia Woolf both scored twice, along with the Colombian Gabriel Garcia Marquez, who declined to vote.

Living writers were few and far between . Notable examples were Doris Lessing - whose Golden Notebook featured - and Salman Rushdie, Chinua Achebe and Toni Morrison.

Alf van der Hagen, an editor with the Norwegian Book Clubs, said: "The unique element to this list is that we didn't just ask authors from Europe or the US, we took a worldwide survey for the first time."

He said more than two-thirds of the 100 titles were written by Europeans, almost half were written last century and 11 were by women.
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DWill

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Re: Why is Don Quixote such a classic?

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Okay, Robert, I credit you for a good find. But I'm still wondering what necessary conclusion about the book follows from this poll, if any does in your opinion. Are you implying a version of the argument from authority?
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Re: Why is Don Quixote such a classic?

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Assessments of book quality are subjective. The fact that a poll of the world's greatest authors ranked Don Quixote as the best novel ever provides a reasonable basis to enquire as to what may be good about this book. The conclusion I draw from this poll is that Don Quixote has deeper content, in terms of social commentary, than is sometimes seen if we just focus on character and plot.
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Re: Why is Don Quixote such a classic?

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I generally steer clear of "classic" anythings. They are usually hyped far beyond anything they can deliver, and thus by the time I do get to them, I can only be disappointed. I find this true of all expressive fields, novels, poetry, art, movies, music. The more hype something gets, the less inclined I am to like it, because I am very headstrong and want to make decisions for myself, so if someone tells me I will love something and I don't, I then become even more jaded than I've already become, and so I try to take the words "classic" and "best seller" and "you'll love it" with a very large helping of salt, just to be sure. There are some books I am glad I was forced to read because I liked the story but not the writing and wouldn't have come to it on my own, but then there are the supposed "classics" that I absolutely hate, and wonder how they became classics to begin with. Don Quixote is, unfortunately, shaping up to be one of the latter. It seems a lot more interesting with a bit of a rewrite and some "classic" musical numbers, ala Man of La Mancha. I liked it a lot better when that was the most I knew of the mad knight.
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Re: Why is Don Quixote such a classic?

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Robert Tulip wrote:Assessments of book quality are subjective. The fact that a poll of the world's greatest authors ranked Don Quixote as the best novel ever provides a reasonable basis to enquire as to what may be good about this book. The conclusion I draw from this poll is that Don Quixote has deeper content, in terms of social commentary, than is sometimes seen if we just focus on character and plot.
We hold very dearly to our opinions and assessments about things like books. It's probably good that this is so, overall. I have to say that I can't understand an opinion, whether an author's or anyone else's, that DQ is the best novel of all time. The best example of that literary form that we have? Better than Middlemarch or Ulysses? I don't think that your poll seeks to determine which is the best novel. Recommendations are made for diverse reasons, and an author's opinion of which book everyone should read is not the same as a judgment that it's the best of a certain kind.
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Re: Why is Don Quixote such a classic?

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bleachededen wrote:I generally steer clear of "classic" anythings. They are usually hyped far beyond anything they can deliver, and thus by the time I do get to them, I can only be disappointed. I find this true of all expressive fields, novels, poetry, art, movies, music. The more hype something gets, the less inclined I am to like it, because I am very headstrong and want to make decisions for myself, so if someone tells me I will love something and I don't, I then become even more jaded than I've already become, and so I try to take the words "classic" and "best seller" and "you'll love it" with a very large helping of salt, just to be sure. There are some books I am glad I was forced to read because I liked the story but not the writing and wouldn't have come to it on my own, but then there are the supposed "classics" that I absolutely hate, and wonder how they became classics to begin with. Don Quixote is, unfortunately, shaping up to be one of the latter. It seems a lot more interesting with a bit of a rewrite and some "classic" musical numbers, ala Man of La Mancha. I liked it a lot better when that was the most I knew of the mad knight.
We earlier discussed Paradise Lost by John Milton. I found it hard to read, but having read it have a far clearer sense of Milton's worldview, for example with earth hanging by a string from heaven above the pit of hell. It is an evocative image from an encounter with a deep thinker. This is part of the value of reading classics, that their real meaning takes time to ponder and wonder about, considered against big themes of history and identity. Milton gave a narrative myth to England in a similar way to how Cervantes gave a narrative myth to Spain.

Cervantes established Don Quixote as a type, to the point that the name Don Quixote is emblematic for quixotic actions. I found it interesting, bleachededen, that you compared ignorant religious views with Don Quixote in another thread. For you having read the book gives this comparison more weight, as you have some idea what Don Quixote is really like. His fantastic mentality, in disregarding reality, is similar to people today who believe a narrative logic despite its discrepancies with the real world.

It can be hard to say who is right and who is wrong when people are following their dreams. Don Quixote's dreams are dangerous, causing him to release prisoners and assault innocents. He also represents a continuity with an earlier chivalrous imagined world of nobility and duty, and by comparison his detractors seem cynical and limited.

The reason for Cervantes' mockery of chivalrous literature is to criticise how imagined fantasy can be preferred over empirical observation. Cervantes sits at the dawn of the modern world with Galileo and Shakespeare. He is an advocate for the modern world against blind faith in traditional authority. Economically, I suspect there is a linkage between the outlook of Cervantes and the emerging bourgeois merchant class of his day, focused on rational innovation and change.
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Re: Why is Don Quixote such a classic?

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Robert Tulip wrote: The reason for Cervantes' mockery of chivalrous literature is to criticise how imagined fantasy can be preferred over empirical observation. Cervantes sits at the dawn of the modern world with Galileo and Shakespeare. He is an advocate for the modern world against blind faith in traditional authority. Economically, I suspect there is a linkage between the outlook of Cervantes and the emerging bourgeois merchant class of his day, focused on rational innovation and change.
Don Q. does prefer fantasy derived from the chivalry books to boring empirical reality, but he is the only one in the book who does so. The germ of Cervantes' story thus doesn't amount to social criticism, in my book. In the world of the novel everyone else thinks Don Q. is loony, too; Cervantes doesn't provide any more commentary than that. The chivalry books are a bit like Harry Potter books or the Midnight series today. People are crazy for them, but almost nobody thnks they are real. They don't need ridiculing on that basis, just as I don't think Cervantes intended to ridicule books that were nakedly--for everyone but one--fantastic entertainments.

I can see why writers view Don Quixote as a seminal book, as a starting point for modern fiction. Cervantes was helping create the form without knowing he was doing so. His proto-novel is therefore not a pinnacle of the form, but rather rough and lacking in artistry--though abounding in energy and inventiveness. For modern readers, a problem is that this 1,000 page book has only two main characters and they develop little throughout the book. There is little progression in the book, in terms of an anticipated end or climax (cf. Huckleberry Finn, e.g.); the 50th adventure could be placed 5th without it making much difference.

The narrative structure is probably what interests writers and critics most. There are boxes within boxes. My own view of this is that Cervantes was having some fun experimenting. Overall the narrative seems a little muddled to me, with no clear intent that I can see for Cervantes putting in at least three narrative perspectives. But later writers would pick up on this innovation and use it more intentionally. It's great fun, though, to see the Don and Sancho, as characters in a book written by an Egyptian author, translated by a Moor into Spanish, and presented by yet a third narrator whom we can call Cervantes, being lionized (or is it victimized?) by characters who have read in a book about the pair's own earlier exploits! The Duchess even uses the written account of Sancho's fabrication of Dulcinea's enchantment to persuade him that that he was enchanted to report that she was a peasant girl! No wonder some post-modernists are enchanted with the book.

I've reached page 700. I found the Cave of Montesimo to be a good complicator of the action, with Sancho having caught the Don actually in a lie (Don sees Dulcinea as falsely reported by Sancho). This long book, as I mentioned, seems longer still due to lack of much narrative drive based on either character or plot.
Last edited by DWill on Sun Apr 25, 2010 2:34 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Why is Don Quixote such a classic?

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The other characters are beginning to seriously get on my nerves. Am I supposed to read the duke and duchess "did not repent their taunting of Sancho...but found much pleasure in it" to mean these are good people? Am I supposed to see the duke and duchess as being righteous and just when they replace the farmer who has soiled the good name and reputation of their beloved duenna's daughter with a footman, then agreeing with Don Quixote's mad claim that the farmer was replaced by the footman by the enchanters who pursue him, and not by the duke, who has actually contrived the entire fight so that Don Quixote will lose? Am I supposed to find this footman honorable who, upon seeing the lady whose honor is in question, forfeits the duel and vows to marry her, even though this goes against the reason for the duel in the first place (which was to force the farmer who promised the maiden his hand and took her maidenhood and fled instead)? And what's up with the duchess and the idiot maid Altisidora beating the duenna and pinching and poking Don Quixote for no reason I could glean except that they had heard them talking about their beauty and becoming jealous and angry? Really? I wish I could beat up everyone who ever called me ugly or less than pretty without being caught or even seen and not consider myself to be a huge jerk!

And what can the duchess be thinking, dragging the rest of poor Sancho's family into her ill-begotten humor? Poor Teresa and Sanchica are going to be laughingstocks within a chapter or so, and they could have avoided this if the duchess had kept her stupid mouth shut and left the poor woman (whom she'd never even met!) alone. Please, oh, god of literature, let this book end soon so I can read something where villains are actually villains, and tormentors and liars who use misguided and mentally ill people are regarded as villains and not good, upstanding "Christians."

This book will be the end of me. I can't imagine ever rereading this accursed thing, so a big kudos to those of you who are reading this for a second time or more, because I don't have the strength and suspension of disbelief to ever come to this story again.

Bah.
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