• In total there are 5 users online :: 0 registered, 0 hidden and 5 guests (based on users active over the past 60 minutes)
    Most users ever online was 871 on Fri Apr 19, 2024 12:00 am

The Picture of Dorian Gray by Oscar Wilde: Ch. 1 - 5

#65: Mar. - April 2009 (Fiction)
User avatar
MaryLupin

1G - SILVER CONTRIBUTOR
Junior
Posts: 324
Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2009 8:19 pm
15
Location: Vancouver, BC
Has thanked: 4 times
Been thanked: 6 times

Unread post

Wilde's aesthetics

Wilde's aesthetics is, in part, a response to the major problem of his time, namely that subjectivity was being reexamined in light of the fall of Descartes' simple division between body and mind/soul. Since the self is normally associated with the mind/ego/soul and not the body, when it became apparent that “soul” was far more unstable and somehow deeply linked to the corporeal world, the question for society (and therefore for artists) was to answer what is the self. Wilde addressed the question by examining the distinctions between the writer, the artist and the art work. He did this in his essays of course but also in his novel The Picture of Dorian Grey.

Terms:
• The writer is the actual person, complex, indeterminate, always changing, multiplicitious entity who created the work of art.
• The artist is the projection of the writer. It is the writer's attempt to solidify the self in the body of the work of art and, consequently, in the body of the writer.
• The work of art is, for the life of the writer, tied to its creator. But, like the monster, freed to be itself at the death of its Frankenstein.

So art is about creating beauty because the writer is trying to recreate himself as a stable self, an idealized self that is not required to undergo constant change. Wilde wrote an essay (the one on the soul of man in socialism, I think) in which he postulated that there would be a future in which the personality would be as much of a work of art as any text or sculpture. It was only in his (an our) society which forced the separation between artist and writer because there were parts of the mulitplicitous self that were not socially acceptable. This forces the writer to lie and hence the artist is born in order to tell the truth.

Also, the preface was a response to the criticism of the first (1890) release of PoDG in Lippencott’s Magazine. That didn’t go so well. Wilde, stung, revised substantially, PoDG and the preface was written.
I've always found it rather exciting to remember that there is a difference between what we experience and what we think it means.
User avatar
Penelope

1G - SILVER CONTRIBUTOR
One more post ought to do it.
Posts: 3267
Joined: Tue Oct 02, 2007 11:49 am
16
Location: Cheshire, England
Has thanked: 323 times
Been thanked: 679 times
Gender:
Great Britain

Unread post

Mary Lupin said:
Also, the preface was a response to the criticism of the first (1890) release of PoDG in Lippencott’s Magazine. That didn’t go so well. Wilde, stung, revised substantially, PoDG and the preface was written.
Thank you Mary, I didn't know this and yet I did detect something 'testy' and a bit combative in this preface. So it isn't a bona fide 'preface' is it? But a retort to a magazine critic.

I had been thinking about the pre-Raphaelites with William Morris and Burn-Jones - being very much 'in vogue' at the time, so I thought that Oscar was reacting disparagingly to their influence.
Only those become weary of angling who bring nothing to it but the idea of catching fish.

He was born with the gift of laughter and a sense that the world is mad....

Rafael Sabatini
User avatar
Penelope

1G - SILVER CONTRIBUTOR
One more post ought to do it.
Posts: 3267
Joined: Tue Oct 02, 2007 11:49 am
16
Location: Cheshire, England
Has thanked: 323 times
Been thanked: 679 times
Gender:
Great Britain

Unread post

Suzanne said:-
Right now, I am admireing the beauty and usefullness of my reading lamp.
Well, Suz, judging from your Pre-Raphaelite Atavar, you will agree with the admirable William Morris - that beauty matters, and that it is good for our souls to be surrounded by it.

I am a great fan of William Morris, the man. I love his designs of wallpaper, his poetry and his politics and the founding of the 'arts and crafts' movement. I also like his face.

Image
Only those become weary of angling who bring nothing to it but the idea of catching fish.

He was born with the gift of laughter and a sense that the world is mad....

Rafael Sabatini
User avatar
Suzanne

1F - BRONZE CONTRIBUTOR
Book General
Posts: 2513
Joined: Wed Apr 08, 2009 10:51 pm
15
Location: New Jersey
Has thanked: 518 times
Been thanked: 399 times

Chapters one and two

Unread post

Thank you Penelope, it's a pleasure to meet William Morris. I read chapters one and two last night and picked out a quote for us girls;
Women have no appreciation of good looks-at least, good women have not.
Oscar Wilde, page 15

I think this sets the tone, and I think it is very clear


[/quote]I believe the world would gain such fresh impulse of joy that we would forget all the maladies of mediaevalism, and return to the Hellenic ideal, to something finer, richer, than the Hellenic ideal, it may be.
Page 20

The Hellenic ideal,
relating to the period in classical Greece, and implying a respect, civic responsibility, and other ideals, includinglove between men
Footnote, page 20.

Did anybody notice how many references to flowers there were in chapters one and two? One flower, laburnum is poisonous. Ohhh, forebooding! Also, there were a lot of bees mentioned. Bees, and flowers. The flowers were eternally beautiful, unlike us mere humans, and bees are responsible for creating flowers. Bees, are the artists, and flowers, are their subjects. (There was a lot of daisy picking too!)

Why was Basil so distrought at the end of chapter two? Basil certainly did not want Henry around Dorian, Henry made Dorian think, not attractive!
I liked the way Basil said, "I will stay with the real Dorian", meaning the picture. Dorian divides.

Interesting, Basil and Henry have discusions on how thinking and knowledge ages a person, and creates "non beauty". I don't remember reading the word ugly. This is Wilde's only novel, he certainly is making a statement about his comtemperaries in 1890, and his contempt for them.
On to chapter three.

Suzanne

User avatar
Suzanne

1F - BRONZE CONTRIBUTOR
Book General
Posts: 2513
Joined: Wed Apr 08, 2009 10:51 pm
15
Location: New Jersey
Has thanked: 518 times
Been thanked: 399 times

Grrrrrr

Unread post

Drat, all my quotes are messed up, very unattactive! :cry:
User avatar
MaryLupin

1G - SILVER CONTRIBUTOR
Junior
Posts: 324
Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2009 8:19 pm
15
Location: Vancouver, BC
Has thanked: 4 times
Been thanked: 6 times

Unread post

Wilde may have been expressing his contempt but I think he was also expressing his fear. He puts out the original PoDG with a more obvious expression of his self - his love of male beauty, of what it means to be a male and an artist - and he gets a horrified clamoring from society in response. So he writes the preface and he rewrites PoDG. He must have known other people who had been punished for being who they were and was probably terrified that sooner or later it would happen to him, as of course it did.
I've always found it rather exciting to remember that there is a difference between what we experience and what we think it means.
User avatar
Penelope

1G - SILVER CONTRIBUTOR
One more post ought to do it.
Posts: 3267
Joined: Tue Oct 02, 2007 11:49 am
16
Location: Cheshire, England
Has thanked: 323 times
Been thanked: 679 times
Gender:
Great Britain

Unread post

Suzanne:
Drat, all my quotes are messed up, very unattactive!
Don't worry Suzanne, it is very good from my point of view, because it means I must read your posts carefully and not wing through them, missing points.

So, Oscar says, good women don't appreciate men's beauty.

Hmmmmm that means I must be very wicked...because I ALWAYS appreciate good looks. :roll:

Oscar Wilde, it seems, treated his wife with contempt. I wonder if he felt contempt for women in general. Well, we won't find out from AP~DG, but we might gather more clues. I'm going to look out for some.
Only those become weary of angling who bring nothing to it but the idea of catching fish.

He was born with the gift of laughter and a sense that the world is mad....

Rafael Sabatini
User avatar
Suzanne

1F - BRONZE CONTRIBUTOR
Book General
Posts: 2513
Joined: Wed Apr 08, 2009 10:51 pm
15
Location: New Jersey
Has thanked: 518 times
Been thanked: 399 times

Oscar Wilde

Unread post

Hello Mary:

You have been very informative, do you know where I would find a copy of the original version. I am intriqued.

Like so many other books, they spin off for me. I am familiar with his trials, but now I want to read his biography. I think you really hit it, to know a persons work, it is helpful to know the person.

I am on chapter 6 now, the flowers are back in full bloom again. What is your take on the flowers. They showed up with the introduction of Sybil Vane, who seems to live in plays, simular to Dorian who lives in a painting. Also, Jim, Sybil's brother reminds me of Basil. They both seem to want to protect, what? Innocence maybe? Do the flowers symbolize innocence?

Suzanne
User avatar
Suzanne

1F - BRONZE CONTRIBUTOR
Book General
Posts: 2513
Joined: Wed Apr 08, 2009 10:51 pm
15
Location: New Jersey
Has thanked: 518 times
Been thanked: 399 times

Too funny

Unread post

Hello Penelope:

I only have eyes for my husband. I wear glasses, does that mean I can have a pair of eyes for him, and a pair for someone else?

A woman enters in chapter three, should be interesting.

I have to say, I am loving his dialogue, he is a playwrite after all. I find that I can visualize and care about characters more through dialogue than from discription alone.

Oh, who is AP?

Suzanne
User avatar
Penelope

1G - SILVER CONTRIBUTOR
One more post ought to do it.
Posts: 3267
Joined: Tue Oct 02, 2007 11:49 am
16
Location: Cheshire, England
Has thanked: 323 times
Been thanked: 679 times
Gender:
Great Britain

Unread post

Suzanne asked;
Oh, who is AP?
AP - A Picture.... I should have typed TP...The Picture....blame it on the recent stress and excitement. ;-)
I only have eyes for my husband.
Yes, but just because you're on a diet, doesn't mean you can't read the menu, Suz. :laugh:
Only those become weary of angling who bring nothing to it but the idea of catching fish.

He was born with the gift of laughter and a sense that the world is mad....

Rafael Sabatini
Post Reply

Return to “The Picture of Dorian Gray - by Oscar Wilde”