But something just doesn't seem right about waging preemptive war and then making the justifications after the fact, especially when the original reasons didn't pan out.

I agree completely.

Penelope
But being addicted to violence is not a 'reason' is it?

I’m not addicted to violence, but I understand that I could go down that road so I refrain from unnecessary violence… so yes it is a reason.

Later

However, i'll take the chance to write that this is cultural-- the love-hate relationship the French have for the US.

This is something that is often difficult for Americans in the States to understand. Expats sometimes have a better shot at it.
I've been living in Europe for over ten years now - and in a lot of ways, I feel more American now than I ever did when I lived back home in South Carolina. I can understand some of what "the rest of the world" feels however when they expirience American action, or culture, as an outsider, and I share some of their feelings.
I left the States for a sense of adventure. Pirate ships, ravaging tribes and all that....but what I found when I went to the furthest corner of the earth is that my country was already there! Even in the remotest mountians of Asia and the deepest Jungles of Africa, all the kids know who Michael Jordan is and wear Levis Jeans and cast-off Eskimo Joe's T-Shirts.
Not all of this is horrible, but there can be a sense of being run-over by the juggernaut of American culture, which is all-knowing and all-seeing and consumes everything in its path. Many people - and I am one of them - dread the fact that everything and everywhere is turning into a suburban US mall....Pizza Hut has restaurants in Italy now, as well as Starbucks....its true that the people there have a choice, and they choose these American things, but the tyranny of the majority ensures that in ten years, when I go to Rome and get an espresso - its probably going to be five gallons of luke-warm brown liquid served in a paper cup - to go.
All this is, of course, hardly relavant to Amercan foriegn policy, but by extension, one can see where the "love-hate" thing comes from.
Add this all to the fact that the average American is tought as a child that they were born "in the best Nation on earth" (I was one of them.) and its not hard to see why Americans are often dismissive of other ideas and ways of living.
I myself dream of the day when America returns to the promise of its beginings, when it led not by the force of its arms, but by the power of its ideals. I still believe in an America as a "shining city on a hill" and hope that my life outside of it can serve as an example of that to everyone I meet.

Oh - and by the way - the French are the truest "friends" America could have. Everything we as a nation claim as ours, was first thought of and put into action by them. One of the reasons the two cultures clash so strongly is becasue they are so alike. (but don't tell them that.)

Frank

I’m not addicted to violence, but I understand that I could go down that road so I refrain from unnecessary violence… so yes it is a reason.

I know you aren't. Badly worded again. I didn't mean to imply that.

Sorry Frank.....

I quite often feel like giving some of our MP's a punch.....so I guess I'm as violent as the rest.....

I wish I'd learnt a martial art, which I am told, teaches one how to contain ones violent impulses.

Wookie:

Thanks for this reassuring post.

btw - Starbucks do excellent esspresso, although I've never found any as good as the true kind which you can buy anywhere in Italy. Try as I might I can't make it here - even bringing the coffee back from Italy.

I think it is the mix of nationalities in America which makes for interesting food. One must ignore Pizza Hut and the unmentionable Big M of course.

One of my ambitions is to go the San Francisco because I have read so much about the restaurants, especially the lobster.

I think the world's youth are attracted to all things American because the US is vital and dynamic and inventive...... and that is because of the mixing of the gene-pool. See how scientific I can be?????

Wookie,

Thanks for this contribution, and welcome to Booktalk!

Add this all to the fact that the average American is tought as a child that they were born "in the best Nation on earth"

I talked about such things with an American BT member who had travelled to several countries. It turned out from his and my experience that every person seems to think his country is best, for different reasons. We compared France, Germany, Japan... they all thought they were best.
He said he could sometimes feel a little pity as a tourist -- but people vere very discreet in pitying him.

So I'd say that the American, like everyone else, knows he has it best, but the difference is that he does not hesitate to let the visitor know about this fact, er... a little louder than you might wish.
This is a difference in education. The Japanese might say to a child "This is the best country in the word, but be quiet about it."
In the old days in France you were not supposed to let people know how much money you had, in case your neighbours had less than you did. I don't think it was because you had noble thoughts about it all, it was just custom, or the idea that bragging was bad manners.
In the US, such a concept may have no sense: you are proud of what you have, and you say so.

Brotherska wrote:I believe that nations should not interfere with the internal affairs of other nations, and should respect their sovereignty and territorial integrity. I do not believe that any nation has the right to violate another nation’s sovereignty in order to bring relief to citizens suffering under a leader who is corrupt, and has mismanaged the country’s finances and social services.

Hello Brotherska, welcome to Booktalk, and thank you for starting this discussion. My view is that the nation-state model has failed Africa, and that many countries, notably Zimbabwe, Congo and Angola, need to be placed under international protectorates until they are able to govern themselves. The UK did an excellent thing in invading Sierra Leone. Paul Collier discusses this problem in his book The Bottom Billion, which would be an excellent non-fiction selection for Booktalk. I think Bill Clinton said not invading Rwanda was among his worst mistakes as a President.

Looking at modern world history as a Hegelian dialectic, we can see imperialism as an original European thesis and decolonisation as an antithesis. The need now is for a synthesis, in which the capacity of the advanced countries is applied to govern failing states to reduce poverty and enable sustainable development. However, the USA needs to become less arrogant and learn how to cooperate better with others rather than insisting on its exceptionalism.

Ophelia:

In the US, such a concept may have no sense: you are proud of what you have, and you say so.

I have been reading that in Britain, we treat our weather like we treat our children. We grumble about it among ourselves, but we don't like any outsiders to criticise it, or we spring to its defence.

Well Penelope, I thought of you during my last post. I definitely caught some germans thinking they had it best, but although I spent more time in the UK than in any other country, I was never given any indication of "Britain is best".
So from what you say I should have criticized the UK to get people's feelings
on the subject?

Or how about anti European Union feelings? Is that an indication of "Britain is best", or just that they don't want to live with a bunch of other countries or be "ruled from Brussels", however lovely or dreadful they consider the UK to be?

Hi Robert:

I do not like the idea of another nation, even the UN, running another country, unless that is what the people consent to for a time. But people have a right to expect a more powerful nation to assist them when the mass murder commences.

Do oppressed people expect Russia or China to come to their aid? Given their historical records of murdering their own citizens, it is unlikely. People expect that the US and the UK may come, and therefore appeal to them.

To come and do what you may ask? To do what the US did to Lybia’s Gadaffi in 1986, when former US President Regan bombed his house but unfortunately killed his adopted daughter instead. Target the mass murders. You may remember that shortly thereafter, Gadaffi appeared to put aside his murderous ways, and the world breathed a lot easier.

Therefore, when a despotic leader decides to mercilessly torture and kill the nation’s citizens (our brothers and sisters in humanity), then target him with a bomb, and warn his successor to expect the same if he/she continues the previous practice. Efficient, clinical, and so far, at any time in recorded history, and in all civilizations of the world, it has generally been effective.