Hi Everyone!

I will go into the subject in more detail when I come from work tonight but here is the "corrected" thread. The last reply by myself was incorrect and incomplete. For some reason, this thread did not let me post my entire reply which was really long. So the next two replies are my correct replies split into two. I would LOVE your thoughts on these replies and any criticism is definitely welcome. But please make your thoughts honest.

By the way Dwill, thanks for your reply and I will answer yor questions in more detail tonight. Do keep in mind about what I said about Obama wanting to be hybrid and wanting to help both the majority AND his class. But anyways I am late for work! I appreciate everyone listening to me and I will go into more depth later. Thanks!!!

Moreover, today's elites are the most powerful in history. these elites can do MUCH more than the elites of, say, the Roman empire, or even the British empire. My point is that this class is so powerful. It is so strong and has many ways of molding the government and public life to work for their interests. One key tool is the media, which they use at will to destroy enemies and raise up the people they like. Remember that the market share of media companies owned by corporations that want to protect their power and increase it, rather than impartially relaying the news even if that news runs counter to their interests.

Besides just his attitude, he has already shown much willingness to help his class. He is willing to keep on fueling the bail-outs to banks and protect wall street as MUCH as he could. Citigroup was just bailed out a THIRD time by the government, two of these times by Obama! Remember in "Bad Money" how the author talks about the September '07 crash. This was a few months before the primaries and the #1 concern was for Obama to raise money to beat his other 3 opponents. Therefore he NEEDED the support of the media and of corporations. Basically, he need the support of his interest class. Just like how he needed his elitist friends from Harvard to help him get elected Senator, so he needed them to complete his rise to the presidency.

Point is, so far Obama has done nothing to prove that he will not be a puppet for the upper class. I hate that this is so, but it is so, whether I like it or not. The thing is, Obama thinks he could help his own people AND help the rest of American citizens. He is not God. The sad part is that the interests of these two classes, the upper class and the rest of society, have diverged a LONG time ago. What is good for one class is very bad for the other. So Obama still has a chance to redeem and prove himself because he will be OBLIGED to choose sides. I hope he chooses the right side. However, I doubt he will do so, and I doubt he even has much power to go against the elitist establishment anyways. So god help us all....

I have been thinking about how Obama describes his starting out in the community and what he has achieved. Maybe I just need to read further but reading these few chapters its hard to understand how he turned it around so quickly. He is such a young man (the first pres younger than me...errrgggh). I hope you are wrong, bobby408, about his being a puppet. Maybe its my lower middle class roots but I would like to see things easier for those who struggle daily, and now that I have found my way into the upper middle class, I don't mind paying more to see this happen.

Hi Bobby 408!

I just went back and read your full post to my queries. I guess I should pick up Bad Money. No, I have not read it. It is true about the divergence of upper and lower classes. Maybe the current economy is driving them closer again!

I must say, I never really knew there was such a thing as a community organizer. I guess I always thought of these activities as volunteer by someone who was perhaps motivated by a personal interest. It seems odd to me that someone would be employed to do this in such an unstructured way.

Hi Jan,

Thanks for your reply. I hope you will read "Bad Money." It is an eye-popping book. I suggest you take your time with it to make sure you understand all the obscurities and nuances that naturally come with finance and economics, which are very abstract sciences. Also, I am interested in what you had to say about Obama's community Organizing work. Was this what you were talking about when you mention that you "never really knew there was such a thing as a community organizer." I have not read "Dreams of my father" yet, although I am about to begin as I have just finished "Bad Money." What exactly was it that seemed odd to you that "someone would be employed to do this in such an unstructured way." Community organizing sounds interesting and exploring this facet of the book may be interesting...

bobby408 wrote:Moreover, today's elites are the most powerful in history. these elites can do MUCH more than the elites of, say, the Roman empire, or even the British empire. My point is that this class is so powerful. It is so strong and has many ways of molding the government and public life to work for their interests.

You might find a recent book we read, The Limits of Power to offer suuport for your view. I don't believe that Bacevich uses the term elite, but the entrenched bureaucrats and "public servants" in Washington are in his view operating with little regard for the public they're supposed to be serving. This is a surprising assessment to come from a basically conservative, former military man.

Hi all,

Dwill, I bought "Limits of Power" a few days ago and have read a good portion so far. His analysis and grasp of recent history is extremely unique and useful. This country's self-indulgence goes back a long ways and we, the American people, are partly to blame for American imperialism. Even though lots of the "messy" wars were hidden from the American public, lots of people knew that there was something fishy going on. But they chose to look the other way because they were living comfortably. They wanted to blame others for their problems and not themselves. The opening statement of this book is "Set thine house in order." The author also mentions Jimmy Carter's outgoing speech to the American people, the "Carter Manifesto." Carter foresaw the country's addiction to consumerism and he chose to confront this fact of life to the American public, and in the process, he committed political suicide. The American people have not wanted to come face to face with their consumerist culture. They have ignored the potential negatives for far too long and now..... well now, it is biting all of us in the ass!!