Yes, that's very true, I think--Samson's observation that the beauty of nature may be conditional on our situation as visitors to the place. Marlowe was more apt to interpret the scene as threatening because in some ways it actually was. We (or at least I) sometimes glorify wilderness without considering the dangers people faced back when wilderness existed and could be confronted.

In this connection, I was surprised to read about a bear who escaped from a preserve in Germany last year. The story noted that wild bears do not exist in Germany (or perhaps anywhere in Europe). Amazing to me, since here, 60 miles from Washington, DC, it is not uncommon for black bears to be cited, even in the close DC subburbs when they for some reason wander in. But these bears are not a threat. I can not remember a single report of one attacking a human. That would not be true of the western grizzly, which is a creature to watch out for, or for the mountain lion, which can really be a predator on humans.

I love to travel around in the forests, and I favor shemes to reintroduce predators to areas of the West, but if I think about it, my experience would be altered if there was really a chance that I coluld be attacked out there. To put it simply, I might not go! It might be true that we who say we like nature want it to be on our own terms--or not truly natural.
Will

The story noted that wild bears do not exist in Germany (or perhaps anywhere in Europe).

France reintroduced a few bears in the Pyrennees a few years ago. This is controversial, for the same reasons are the reintroduction of wolves were in US National Parks.

The bears did well, but our parks in France are small and the many herds of sheep very tempting. Mostly the sheep die because they get frightened on meeting a bear and fall into ravines.

So it's a complicated dance: I think farmers get some compensation from the government, but then from time to time a bear disappears and hunters are accused...
Over there (in South Western France) it's a sensitive issue.

Sweden still have some wild bears and wolves, especially in the north. A couple of days ago a tree feller (is that what you call it?) was attacked by a bear. They are usually not attacking humans, but sometimes they become aggressive, especially when they have offspring.

We also have the same issue as southern France when farmers and Sami people kill bears and wolves. I don't know if you are familiar with the Sami people, but they are an aboriginal people who often have herds of reindeer and they live up north.

Penelope wrote:Ah, you see, I thought rhetoric meant - overstating and dramatising your argument in order to persuade people.

Some of our MP's (usually Welshmen) are accused of using 'pure rhetoric' to argue their case in parliament.

They have wonderful voices, usually, and Welsh is a delightful accent to my ears. You know - Dylan Thomas:- Rage, Rage against the dying of the light - is that not an example of rhetoric?

Hey! I hoid that!

(I am half Welsh - my mother was born in south Wales.)

Cheers Carley:

Cymru am byth! Wales for ever!

Y Ddraig Goch ddyry gychwyn The Red Dragon will show the way

I live about 1/2 hour by car from the Welsh Border.

Last year we went to South Wales for a holiday - Pembrokeshire -

You will like this photograph I took then:

If I can get it to come up:

http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff15 ... oke008.jpg

OK - you can see it if you click on it.

I just wanted to correct my statement about black bears being harmless to humans. My wife, who works for the Appalachian Trail Conservancy, reviews incident reports, and she tells me I'm wrong. A boy was killed by a black bear in the Smokies last year, and around here there have been a couple of attacks but no fatalities. The problems can occur when campers have food that the bears want. The problem is really habitat encroachment by us humans.
Will