No not you.It is pretty much a discussion of why atheism is a totally acceptable worldview and it refutes the fundie claims to the contrary.So it is basically a theism v. atheism book...but more geared against the Fundies specifically.Mr. P. I'm not saying it's usual for people to do those things but I(with the permission of God) have raised a dog from the dead and healed many people from all sorts of ailments. - Asana Boditharta (former booktalk troll)The one thing of which I am positive is that there is much of which to be negative - Mr. P.What is all this shit about Angels? Have you heard this? 3 out of 4 people believe in Angels. Are you F****** STUPID? Has everybody lost their mind? - George CarlinI came to kick ass and chew Bubble Gum...and I am all out of Bubble Gum - They Live, Roddy Piper

A quick addendum. The following is from Haiman's preface:Quote:I am an agnostic. To me that means I simply do not know who or what, if anything, is outside our skins that human beings for centuries have called God or gods.He goes on to briefly describe the virtues and villainies he sees in religion before concluding with:Quote:However, this is book is motivated neither by hostility to organized religion nor endorsement of it. Rather, it grows out of a concern I have, that for me is akin to a religion, for the preservation of a pluralistic, democratic, and secular society in the United States of America. I am, in short, a First Amendment junkie.I'm not sure if that makes either the theists or atheists more amenable to reading this book, but I figured I would throw it out there.

Dissident Heart: Moral Minds: How Nature Designed Our Universal Sense of Right and Wrong, by Marc HauserSuggested by: Mr. PessimisticI am interested in the Chomskian connection, but not so clear what new material is provided beyond Gazzaniga's The Ethical Brain.To be fair to Mr. P's suggestion, it looks like it has less in common with "The Ethical Brain" than DH might suppose. "The Ethical Brain" wasn't so much about the neurological basis for ethics as it was about how our expanding knowledge of how the brain works ought to influence our ethics, and about how changes in neuroscience technology complicate current ethical systems. "Moral Minds" seems to focus on the evolutionary origin of morality, which is a related topic, but isn't quite the same.Biology as Ideology, by Richard C. LewontinSuggested by: MadArchitect... I'm especially interested in the ways that faith (as an ideological foundation, not necessarily a religious belief system) has worked in shaping the field of biology.Then you might be disappointed by this book. Lewontin doesn't talk a hell of a lot about faith, and while he does mention religion once or twice, it's only as background to other issues. The subject of "Biology as Ideology" is the way in which science effects our view of the world, and the way that financial interests effect the practice of science. I think it's a very worthwhile book, but I don't want anyone voting on it under false pretenses.

Haiman: However, this is book is motivated neither by hostility to organized religion nor endorsement of it. Rather, it grows out of a concern I have, that for me is akin to a religion, for the preservation of a pluralistic, democratic, and secular society in the United States of America. I am, in short, a First Amendment junkie.Thanks for taking the extended time to spell out the direction of the book in relation to my brief concerns irishrose. I like this quote and would be interested in exploring how his desire to preserve a democratic, secular pluralistic society is "akin to a religion". This sounds somewhat similar to other conversations we have had where you have recognized your commitment to democracy and human rights as a type of faith...rooted not in transcendent holy deities but as a trust in immanent human dignity.MA: "Moral Minds" seems to focus on the evolutionary origin of morality, which is a related topic, but isn't quite the same.Thanks for the clarification. I like the conjunction of ideas in their titles: Moral Minds and Ethical Brains.MA: The subject of "Biology as Ideology" is the way in which science effects our view of the world, and the way that financial interests effect the practice of science.I am interested in the role of faith (or epistemological assumptions and existential commitments) in shaping ideology, and then the way in which these ideologies (shaped by some sort of faith) influence the practice of science. I am also very interested in how economic theory and financial systems are ideologically driven beyond/beneath the domain of the social sciences: The ideological assumptions that shape the economic structures that influence the practice of science...and how that science reinforces or challenges ideological assumptions. Edited by: Dissident Heart at: 3/14/07 5:00 pm

D.H.: Thanks for taking the extended time to spell out the direction of the book in relation to my brief concerns irishrose. No problem, it gave me a chance to champion my personal choice. (No, I don't own pink pompoms.)D.H.: I like this quote and would be interested in exploring how his desire to preserve a democratic, secular pluralistic society is "akin to a religion". Yes, but note, though Haiman may have been inspired

I am for:Blood Rights (and I think we can see why this might be a freethought type of book)Religious Expression and the American ConstitutionMoral Minds& Biology as IdeologyMr. P. I'm not saying it's usual for people to do those things but I(with the permission of God) have raised a dog from the dead and healed many people from all sorts of ailments. - Asana Boditharta (former booktalk troll)The one thing of which I am positive is that there is much of which to be negative - Mr. P.What is all this shit about Angels? Have you heard this? 3 out of 4 people believe in Angels. Are you F****** STUPID? Has everybody lost their mind? - George CarlinI came to kick ass and chew Bubble Gum...and I am all out of Bubble Gum - They Live, Roddy Piper

There are only two books on the list the interest me. That may be picky, but with all the great books out there I've decided not to spend time on books that don't hook me.Religion and Scientific Naturalism sounds interesting, since I haven't heard a clear explanation of how one could reconcile science & religion.Blood Rites, which I suggested, has some neat original ideas, is easy to read, and will give us plenty to discuss.

Thanks to those that suggested books and participated in this thread. Your comments about other member's book suggestions is super helpful. So thank you very much. I'm closing this suggestion thread and working on the narrowing down process tonight. The poll should be up soon, but please be understanding if it takes me a little time.

Tomorrow I'll put the new polls up, but here are the books that you'll see as choices.Freethinker Poll1. Moral Minds: How Nature Designed our Universal Sense of Right and Wrong2. Biology as Ideology: The Doctrine of DNA3. Misquoting Jesus: The Story Behind Who Changed the Bible and Why4. Religious Expression and the American Constitution General Nonfiction Poll1. Blood Rites: Origins and History of the Passions of War2. In Cold Blood3. Deep Economy: The Wealth of Communities and the Durable Future. 4. Second Chance: Three Presidents and the Crisis of American Superpower5. The Nurture Assumption: Why Children Turn Out the Way They DoThere are 4 choices on the freethinker poll, so let's allow each qualified voter to cast 4 total votes, which can be distributed across the 4 book choices however they see fit. Same goes for the General Nonfiction Poll, which will have the above 5 choices. Every qualified voter can assign a total of 5 votes however they deem appropriate.But this is not the poll thread. This is just a heads up so you can start thinking now.