If any of what Franken says is true, it's pretty devastating...what has the reaction from the Right been? I remember after reading David Brock's Blinded by the Right, there was no reaction from the Right at all...which made me wonder if much of it was true and they were trying to avoid giving any press to the book. I haven't seen much reaction to Franken's book, and I'm interested in the Right's defense, if it/they have one?

David Brock called himself a "right wing hit man", basically a "lying liar" who tried to discredit political opponents. After a long spell at this, he realised he was willingly being used to publish false propaganda, then printed "Blinded by the Right" to expose their activites. As I recall, the right did have a strong reaction to this, summarily dismissing it by saying since he admitted to being a lying liar before (when they cheered every attack), now that he claims to be telling the truth Brock must be lying...

I haven't seen the reaction to Franken's book either, but the way he blisters Coulter, O'Reilley, Hannity, and others its gotta be out there...

I saw a brief segment on CNN where Tucker Carlson dismissed Brock's book, but nothing after that. Which was a smart move for the Right, since challenging the book would have made it more controversial and therefore more popular. The question is, why did they use that strategy if the book didn't contain any truth? I didn't see anyone challenge specific allegations Brock made, they just said "He admits lying for our side, therefore he must be lying for their side." Nobody apologized for using Brock's lies in their own arguments against the Left.

I've seen people dismiss Franken without addressing specifics. It's as if the Right feels the public will dismiss anyone who can be pegged as a "liberal" without any need for follow-ups or detailed investigation.

I think his status as a "liberal" and a comedian makes them feel that Franken has little credibility with mainstream America - at least little credibility to be taken seriously.

It's pretty much "ha ha, there goes Al Franken the liberal comedian shooting off his mouth again".

I've been very busy lately, but what I'd like to do in this forum is to see if I can confirm a representative sample of Franken's allegations. The chapters on O'Reilly ad Coulter are amusing since most of his support for the allegations that they lie are transcipts of their own shows.

In a couple of weeks the semester ends and I won't be out 2 nights a week anymore. I'll have more time then...

Let me quote from "Lying Liers"

page 19, Chapter 3

Al was trying to play devil's advocate to understand how Ann Coulter can write such trashy books with little to no research to validate her position (which Al proved to be false) when he wrote the paragraph below:

"But then again, like any movement conservative, Coulter is a firm believer in the free market. By definition, anything that succeeds in "the marketplace of ideas," like her books, must inherently be of value. And, therefore, unlike members of working families, she really does work for a living."

This is why America is failing. We buy what emotionally appeals to us whether it is true or not. Religion appeals to people because it gives life meaning and the promise it isn't all over or in vain after death.

I just finished watching NOW by Bill Moyer and how corporations and NAFTA is wiping out the America we know. On the 2nd of three segments, Conservative Alabama Governer had a change of heart and proposed tax restructuring to reduce taxes for 51% of Alabaman's on the poor bottom half and increasing taxes on the well to do, and still have lower taxes for the well to do than the neighboring states of Mississipi and Georgia. Well, the rich used the T.V. to convince the stupid poor that this would increase the taxes on everyone. There were counter adds, but they didn't have the wealth or creativity of their opponents. Surprizingly, it was the poor who voted against lowering their taxes and increasing the taxes on the well to do by a large margin. Never mind the red ink of Alabama, the failing overcrowded public schools!

The unconscionable amoral rich have the poor masses by their gonads. Through poor funding of education, they keep the poor stupid, and then manipulate those stupid Americans with emotional adds that are clearly manipulative and misleading. They are making a mockery of our democracy through elections as well through false, emotional adds very well funded by the affluent who want to have the private ears of the government reps to create even more legislation that favors their position (corporate welfare, and unfair tax advantages) while increasing the burden on the rest, including the "non-existent" future generations through deficit spending.

The sad comment on our prediciment is the rich are dancing in a loosing game; they fail to understand the concept of "The Tragedy of the Commons" and through their self centeredness, will erode the very base that made them rich. When they take away their customer's good wages (their employees) and ship them overseas, then turn around and try to sell their product in this country, they find their sales are slump. Why? Who can afford the product! Their customers are in lower paying jobs or on unemployment due to NAFTA. Hence, a recession! Duh! They can't sell their expensive products to their new Honduran or Chinese workers cause their wages are way under a dollar an hour! Again, duh!

Rich conservative people are stupid. They are driving our democracies and the environment of the world into a chaotic tail spin but will not accept the responsibility. They have a cherished religion of lassie faire business, and that selfishness will inherently make this a better world without regulations. They do until some bigger fish goes after their juggler!

Monty Vonn
Meme Wars!

Edited by: Meme Wars at: 11/23/03 12:20 pm

It will be wonderful if you find time to do some confirmation. I've quoted Franken a couple of times with my email "happy hour" group, who are mostly sympathetic to Franken's point of view, but I still get "why would you get your facts from a comedian?"

Of course our country has elected a 2nd rate actor as president, and another slightly better actor as governor of our most populous state. IMHO, it takes much more intellectual acumen to be a comedian than to be an actor.

---

Science is neither a philosophy nor a belief system. It is a combination of mental operations that has become increasingly the habit of educated peoples, a culture of illuminations hit upon by a fortunate turn of history that yielded the most effective way of learning about the real world ever conceived. E.O.Wilson

From what I've seen of America, and indeed the rest of the world, I would have to agree with Monty, except when he says "rich conservatives are stupid." I would say some are stupid, some just incredibly selfish.

It is odd that Franken's past as a comedian would give him less credibility than Reagan or Arnold. And Rush Limbaugh is an entertainer, period. Why do liberal entertainers have less credibility than conservative entertainers? It's a double standard and it's getting old. People should check out Franken's citations if they don't trust him. Dismissing him completely makes it all the more blatant when conservatives trust entertainers who take a conservative point of view.

If you would like to see more lies, with evidence, from Bill O'Reilly, read "The Oh, Really? Factor."

Now, Jeremy, I didn't see anyone say, "Why would you get your facts from a comedian?", although I did hear about two people express doubt about wanting to read Franken's book because they had never been impressed by him as a comedian. However, with a little nudging they read the book and have had high praise for it.

there's been quite an uproar (weLL, maybe overstating) from some of the right. biLLoreiLLy in particuLar who keeps using his forums to bash aL and his book. ann couLter has come out a few times to bash the book, and caLL it a book of Lies (see spinsanity.com for most of that). most of everyone that aL takes a swing at, has made pubLic statements on the book.. we usuaLLy post them whenever they're found over at the frankenboard.

if you go to spinsanity, you wiLL see the fight between aL and rich Lowry.

"I've often wondered, what if all of us in the world discovered that we were threatened by an outer -- a power from outer space, from another planet. Wouldn't we all of a sudden find that we didn't have any differences between us at all, we were all human beings, citizens of the world, and wouldn't we come together to fight that particular threat?"
- Ronald Reagan