I I know that mythos still exists, never left and that it is necessary...by not make a comeback, I meant not be as relevant as it was in history...that it does not influence actual policy or pursuit of knowledge as it had in the past.No Inquisitions, persecutions, witch hunts or stiffling of scientific inquiry. Basically, that it knows and keeps its place.But with what is going on nowadays, with the Muslim Terrorists and the Christian whackos that are in office now...I just don't know. It actually worries me.Mr. P. The one thing of which I am positive is that there is much of which to be negative - Mr. P.I came to get down, I came to get down. So get out ya seat and jump around - House of PainHEY! Is that a ball in your court? - Mr. PI came to kick ass and chew Bubble Gum...and I am all out of Bubble Gum - They Live, Roddy Piper

We do not need myth to ascribe value to our existence...at least not in every aspect of our lives. It seems, Mad, that you believe this to be true.No, I wouldn't say that's the purpose of myth, although it may help make that possible at times. It would be difficult to say that Christian mythology hadn't made life more meaningful for Christians, but I wouldn't say that's characteristic of every myth, even among those that have been uniquely successful.I'm looking forward to your full response to my earlier post.

yes Mr. P, I concur wholeheartedly, Mad is definitely keeping me on my toes also. Just when I think I am ready to add a response, Mad has already added something new and I have to go back and revise my response. I have pretty much come to the conclusion that Mad is someone with whom I cannot keep up, but as long as Mad stays within my sight, I can at least be in the race. But then again, everyone on this site keeps my brain racing, especially in the middle of the night.

Oh, I have spent many nights in bed "typing" responses! lolMr. P. The one thing of which I am positive is that there is much of which to be negative - Mr. P.I came to get down, I came to get down. So get out ya seat and jump around - House of PainHEY! Is that a ball in your court? - Mr. PI came to kick ass and chew Bubble Gum...and I am all out of Bubble Gum - They Live, Roddy Piper

You guys have had the ill fortune to catch me in a topic that I've been studying for a number of years. There are other topics in which you guys will no doubt run circles around me. But keep going -- this is an interesting discussion, and you guys shouldn't come away thinking that you haven't made me work to uphold my end of the discussion.

KH wrote: I'm suggesting that if most people do not see that life is worth living just for its own sake, it is because they are not awake!MA responed: How can you suggest the background to this line of thinking and still suggest that humanity needs no mythos in order to ascribe value to their existence? Why wouldn't the awakening of the Buddha serve as a mythos -- particularly in the sense that I described it, as a constitutive narrative? suggest that humanity needs no mythos in order... "Need" is a word with a broad range of connotations. I would agree that I like many, perhaps most, people use mythical references of one kind or another fairly easily. Do I need to? Maybe. I think it's true that the warmth and effectiveness of our communications

Science and myth...Prometheus and Pandora...Science - looking under the rock to see what is there.Myth - pretending to know what is under the rock without looking.That is my take. Your story was very interesting and I absolutely agree that this is how humans have come this far...but I dont buy it anymore.Maybe I am glad that I did not study all this myth and history when I was younger...instead preferring marijuana and other means of having fun (ie - I was a '@#%$ up')...for I feel now that I am not tainted by all the centuries of human 'learning' and I am free to function as a qurious entity divested of the trappings of all the errors of that learning.I still do not see how your response shows science as myth...true science (the concept, not the word we give it), not the scientists who work it. The faultiness of the tool (us) does not diminish the observed object. There are some of us that rise above this and shed any mythological connotation.Quote:And where that effect contributes to what we recognize as the "spirit" proper to scientific endeavor, you would be wise not to try.The "spirit" to me is just knowing; I need no myths for this. Our ancestors (early hominids) had no myths per se and look what progress they made. No myth, just necessity to find a better way. Curiosity needs no myth.Mr. P. The one thing of which I am positive is that there is much of which to be negative - Mr. P.I came to get down, I came to get down. So get out ya seat and jump around - House of PainHEY! Is that a ball in your court? - Mr. PI came to kick ass and chew Bubble Gum...and I am all out of Bubble Gum - They Live, Roddy Piper

Ken Hemingway: "Need" is a word with a broad range of connotations.Well, let's examine it this way: Can you point to a person with whom we're all familar that clearly has no need for mythos?If I had presented the story of the Buddha as a recently coined fictional narrative, I think its persuasive force would have been diminished.Probably, and I am interested to some degree in what distinguishes myth from fiction. The two are clearly related (I would say that fiction is the child of myth), but there are also clear differences between the two. It seems likely to me that one thing that distinguishes the two is the question of authorship. Without an author, the name fiction seems somehow inappriopriate. With an author, we're hard pressed to think of it as a myth in the same sense as the ancient myths.But I think it is important that the myth was being used for a rhetorical purpose

Quote:Sorry if I've managed to overwhelm again. I hope that you guys aren't finding this tedious. Not overwhelmed...under timed is more like it...I just dont have much time for adequate responses to such intensive posts! I am forced to post much of my input from work, which means my work is sidetracked, and I can only afford so much of that!I work two jobs and when I do get home, I have 4 kids and a wife to spend time with, so my alone time for reading and serious posting is between 10pm on...I tend to stay up too late and then it starts all over again the next day!So, while it may take a while to post, I do desire to answer every point...but from focusing on replies, I find I am still stuck in Chapter 3 of this book.I am glad we decided to extend the reading period to 3 months!Mr. P. The one thing of which I am positive is that there is much of which to be negative - Mr. P.I came to get down, I came to get down. So get out ya seat and jump around - House of PainHEY! Is that a ball in your court? - Mr. PI came to kick ass and chew Bubble Gum...and I am all out of Bubble Gum - They Live, Roddy Piper

Quote:To make a rather clumsy analogy, it isn't terribly useful to judge music on its truth value -- it makes far more sense to judge it on whether or not it's danceable.Yeah, but song does not make people launch wars on other people who listen to different songs. I think we are talking about different meanings for myth. Songs, stories, poetry, art...this is all great stuff. It entertains and keeps us balanced by providing an escape from the hardships of reality...but again, I never saw an painting cause holy war. Myth as related to religion, where it can consume the masses in ignorance and cause catastrophic events, is dangerous and un-necessary. It also has the draw back of being manipulated by people with intent to control others. It is when myth arrests reality and reason that I feel it has overstepped it's boundaries and needs to be shown the door.Quote:is that myth has not always been an attempt to know anything, and that it still functions in its original capacity without routinely being noticed in doing so.Maybe I am just not understanding, then, what you think myth is. If not an attempt to know or explain, then what?Quote:then to preceed without understanding myth in general and the specific myths that went into your own making is to view the world through a distortion.Then again, we can argue that ANY view of the world is a distortion. Please, give me an example of how myth is entwined in my life...if it is so pervasive (it seems everything is based on myth the way you explain it), then it should manifest in some universal way.Quote:We may, with some confidence, at least assert that myth has been possible as long as specfically human language has existedWhy? Myth seems to me, from reading your explanations, to be a construct of the mind, of perception. So before langauge, there must have been unspoken, personal myths, no? Where does it end? Is there ANYTHING humans do that does not include a mythical foundation? What about plain old observation and inquiry? When I look at the stars, I wonder what is out there...this does not rely on any myth...it is just wonder and curiosity.Mr. P. The one thing of which I am positive is that there is much of which to be negative - Mr. P.I came to get down, I came to get down. So get out ya seat and jump around - House of PainHEY! Is that a ball in your court? - Mr. PI came to kick ass and chew Bubble Gum...and I am all out of Bubble Gum - They Live, Roddy Piper