Online reading group and book discussion forum
  HOME ENTER FORUMS OUR BOOKS LINKS DONATE ADVERTISE CONTACT  
View unanswered posts | View active topics It is currently Wed Oct 23, 2019 8:12 am





Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 11 posts ] • Topic evaluate: Evaluations: 0, 0.00 on the average.Evaluations: 0, 0.00 on the average.Evaluations: 0, 0.00 on the average.Evaluations: 0, 0.00 on the average.Evaluations: 0, 0.00 on the average. 
Ch. 2 - The Year of Eating Locally 
Author Message
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
BookTalk.org Hall of Fame

BookTalk.org Owner
Diamond Contributor 3

Joined: May 2002
Posts: 16153
Location: Florida
Thanks: 3485
Thanked: 1319 times in 1041 posts
Gender: Male
Country: United States (us)

Post Ch. 2 - The Year of Eating Locally
Ch. 2 - The Year of Eating Locally


This thread is for discussing Chapter 2: The Year of Eating Locally of Deep Economy. Post here, within this chapter thread, or create your own threads. The choice is yours. :)

Edited by: Chris OConnor  at: 4/7/07 12:52 am



Fri Apr 06, 2007 11:51 pm
Profile Email WWW
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
Masters


Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 450
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
Thanks: 5
Thanked: 43 times in 34 posts
Gender: None specified

Post Re: Ch. 2 - The Year of Eating Locally
I'll start the Chapter 2 discussion. Am I the first person to get that far? This chapter does provide less to talk about.

The detail descriptions of the Vermont farmer got monotonous, though I know a little about the area because my wife grew up in Vermont and her family is still out there.

A good companion to this chapter is Eric's Schlosser's excellent book Fast Food Nation.
www.amazon.com/Fast-Food-...0060938455
Schlosser presents a scary picture of agribusiness, though compared to McKibben he focuses more on health & working conditions and less on ecology & economics.

McKibben clearly points out the benefits of small local farms. In that light, maybe I should visit the farmer's market more frequently. He makes a good case of how cheap oil and government subsidies assist massive agribusiness.

Also, I appreciate his honesty in pointing out the advantages of the current system: cheap food and convenience. Some environmentalists have a less balanced perspective.

Edited by: JulianTheApostate at: 4/22/07 7:22 pm



Sun Apr 22, 2007 6:21 pm
Profile


Post Re: The Year of Eating Locally
I found this chapter was more difficult to



Mon Apr 23, 2007 1:07 pm
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
Laughs at Einstein


Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 433
Thanks: 0
Thanked: 0 time in 0 post
Gender: None specified

Post Re: The Year of Eating Locally
I'm wrapped up right now in living this...working on a lot of things to get our local Farmers' Market going on May 5th.

Interesting how more and more, 'eating locally' is becoming the new mantra. Last year when I was interviewed for the opening of the season for the newspaper, the article was all about the community event aspect of the Market. This year, after we had a Food Security Forum in November, Vancouver's 100 Mile Diet people have just released their book on living locally for a year...the opening article in the paper was about eating & buying locally, the political aspects of the Market.

Part of it was the change in me, but it is also the changes in the media's attitudes.

I'm a little worried that this next chapter will be a bit dull for me, 'preaching to the converted'... ah, well. I'll read it today!

;)

"All beings are the owners of their deeds, the heirs to their deeds."

Loricat's Book Nook
Celebrating the Absurd




Tue Apr 24, 2007 9:17 am
Profile
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
Banned

Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 528
Thanks: 0
Thanked: 0 time in 0 post
Gender: None specified

Post Re: The Year of Eating Locally
Loricat:

I have a question for you. I've read about your participation with your own farmers' market and I'm wondering if there is some protocol among farmers' markets. I have a great market (the Reading Terminal in Philadelphia) literally two blocks from my office. It's a full city block market with various local eateries/fish mongers/butchers/dairies/random sellers/etc. A whole corner is dedicated to the Amish community that brings their product in from nearby Lancaster and surrounding farms. There's a food co-op and CSA with their own corner of the market. But there is this huge commercial produce section, with product coming from all over the world, just like a regular supermarket produce section. This part of the market certainly does not promote local/sustainable agriculture. Is that appropriate? Is there no self-policing among these markets? BTW, I bought the most delicious locally produced honey the other day. It really does taste differently.

Loricat: I'm a little worried that this next chapter will be a bit dull for me, 'preaching to the converted'

It was, especially after reading The Omnivore's Dilemma. The only thing McKibben really made me consider was cutting out my morning cereal (Kashi) that I still buy. He gets into the cost of packaging a bit more than Pollan, which made me feel guilty about continuing to buy my cereal. I've cut out almost all industrial food, except my Kashi--it's just the perfect way to start the morning. Do I sound like a commercial? With all the other changes I've been working on since reading The Omnivore's Dilemma, I'm not sure how obligated I feel about cutting out this one product. But I do buy a lot of it. And, according to McKibben, the packaging of a box of cereal is where a lot of the cost to the environment comes. I have learned, and McKibben also references this, that learning to buy locally is more of a gradual process than an all-at-once change. I took one big leap, at first, but now I'm progressing with baby steps.





Tue Apr 24, 2007 10:18 am
Profile
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
I dumpster dive for books!

Bronze Contributor

Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1790
Thanks: 2
Thanked: 18 times in 13 posts
Gender: Male
Country: United States (us)

Post Re: Ch. 2 - The Year of Eating Locally
Quote:
The deepest problem that local-food efforts face, however, is that we've gotten used to paying so little for food. It may be expensive in terms of how much oil it requires, and how much greenhouse gas pours into the atmosphere, and how much tax subsidy it receives, and how much damage it does to local communities, and how many migrant workers it maims, and how much sewage piles up, and how many highway miles it requires- but boy, when you pull your cart up to the register, it's pretty cheap. 89


I think McKibben packs a lot of punch in this small paragraph. The key, as I see it, involves how our economic model determines cost, and what it values as cheap or inexpensive. If the only determining cost factor is what you see at the register, then, our current economic model is very hard to beat. But if you consider the list of concerns McKibben names above, our means of feeding ourselves are profoundly flawed.

The selection below is how McKibben defines the cost/value dynamic in his winter experiment of eating locally, and I think it captures the real treasure of this chapter and, truly, the hope of this book:
Quote:
Eating this way has come at a cost. Not in health or in money (if anything, I've spent less than usual, since I haven't bought a speck of processed food) but in time. I've had to think about every meal, instead of wandering through the world on autopilot, ingesting random calories. I've had to pay attention. But the payoff for that cost has been immense, a web of connections I'de never known about. I've gotten to eat with my brain as well as my tounge: every meal comes with a story. The geogrpahy of the valley now means something more to me; I've met dozens of people I wouldn't otherwise have known...the winter permanently altered the way I eat. In more ways than one, it left a good taste in my mouth. That good taste was satisfaction. The time I spent getting the food and preparing it was not, in the end, a cost at all. In the end it was a benefit, the benefit. In my role as eater, I was part of something larger than myself that made sense to me- a community. I felt grounded, connected." 94


Preparing for our daily bread as a necessary means to transform an entire economy: becoming fully intentional participants and informed partners in the process of feeding ourselves is crucial to defining economic value. Deep economic revolution requires a daily practice of considering: what does the bite of bread really cost?

McKibben also makes it clear that this is not a solitary endeavor geared around rugged individualism and consumer customization. This kind of deep economy requires constant interaction, collaboration, cooperation, engagement, sharing of information: no one really gains unless everyone shares in the effort and sacrifice...and it takes time and labor. There is no easy way to do this. It is inconvenient. But with the effort comes satisfaction: the genuine pleasure of honest exchange and trusted relationships, linked to physical health and an everincreasing knowledge of the wondrous world around us.

I fear we (our Nation) are too deep in the Junkie mode: too addicted to short term gratification and unable to imagine that the minor inconveniences demanded by a deep economy will pay off in satisfaction rarely, if ever, experienced. And, the Pushers who control industry and manipulate policy are not going to simply let go of their control of consumer appetites.

McKibben's vision, in my opionion, is beautiful. But is beauty enough?





Tue Apr 24, 2007 11:20 am
Profile
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
Masters


Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 450
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
Thanks: 5
Thanked: 43 times in 34 posts
Gender: None specified

Post Re: Ch. 2 - The Year of Eating Locally
DH, don't forget how conservative the US is. After all, George Bush won the 2004 election, despite his disastrous right-wing first term.

Sure, there are lots of people out there who take environmental issues seriously. Still, it will take a dramatic shift for the country as a whole to accept McKibben's arguments.




Tue Apr 24, 2007 11:43 pm
Profile
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
I dumpster dive for books!

Bronze Contributor

Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1790
Thanks: 2
Thanked: 18 times in 13 posts
Gender: Male
Country: United States (us)

Post Re: Ch. 2 - The Year of Eating Locally
Julian: DH, don't forget how conservative the US is

I agree. But I think the very best of American Conservatism is linked to a love and appreciation of the soil and protection of the American farm. I reject the jingoism, patriarchy, militarism, and Christian exclusivism that is expressed by many American conservatives; but I think they are just as disgusted by corporate elites and their tiny segment of the population absconding with the lion's share of wealth. There is a huge portion of American farm culture that is not friendly to the massive agribusiness industries that hold entire villages, cities, counties and agricultural regions hostage. And, there is a vibrant movement of religious environmentalists who practice a Green Faith that involves progressives and evangelicals working together to foster a more responsible stewardship and love of Creation by Christians everywhere. No matter what our solution, it must include conservative Americans...and if that is true, it needs to take seriously their religious belief systems.

Julian: Still, it will take a dramatic shift for the country as a whole to accept McKibben's arguments.

As Climate Change increases (with all of its attending crises) we can count on dramatic shifts like we have never seen before. I think McKibben's arguments will speak to the vast majority of middle Americans who come from generations who were tied to the land and depended upon far more frugal lifestyles within close-knit, local economies. Again, I think an important part of this conversation will have to include Religious Environmentalism, as it will connect the deepest notions of identity, moral obligation, and spiritual practice to care and love of Creation. Middle America understands this language and is mobilized by its unconditional demands.




Wed Apr 25, 2007 4:51 pm
Profile
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
Banned

Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 528
Thanks: 0
Thanked: 0 time in 0 post
Gender: None specified

Post Re: Ch. 2 - The Year of Eating Locally
D.H.: No matter what our solution, it must include conservative Americans...and if that is true, it needs to take seriously their religious belief systems.

These solutions absolutely do not have to "take seriously" "religious belief systems." They may need to respect the many different belief systems of the American public; but solutions to the destruction of the earth/society/community by industrial agriculture, and/or the economy as whole, certainly do not need to rely on religion or mythology.

D.H.: ...a vibrant movement of religious environmentalists who practice a Green Faith that involves progressives and evangelicals working together to foster a more responsible stewardship and love of Creation by Christians everywhere

My understanding of the conservatives Julian mentions have very little, possibly no, resemblance to the people you cherish describing.




Wed Apr 25, 2007 5:01 pm
Profile
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
I dumpster dive for books!

Bronze Contributor

Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1790
Thanks: 2
Thanked: 18 times in 13 posts
Gender: Male
Country: United States (us)

Post Re: Ch. 2 - The Year of Eating Locally
irishrose: but solutions to the destruction of the earth/society/community by industrial agriculture, and/or the economy as whole, certainly do not need to rely on religion or mythology.

If you are interested in changing the minds and habits of Middle America, which are far more religious than not, then you may want to consider how religion can help. You don't have to endorse anything religious, but if a substantial portion of the challenge involves those who do endorse some sort of religious life...then it stands to reason that religion will be part of the solution. I'm offering one way to get religion into the solution part of the Climate Crisis equation. It's a way that brings different religious communities across cultural and ideological borders onto common ground with secular folk and scientists.

irishrose: My understanding of the conservatives Julian mentions have very little, possibly no, resemblance to the people you cherish describing.

I suggest we lift up those voices of conservative America that accept the truth of global warming and climate change and the role of human activity in exacerbating both. I think it's important to highlight those conservative Christians who see a moral obligation to turn back the tide of global warming and climate change because of their religious commitment to love and care for creation. I think the combination of those conservatives who cherish the earth and those who love creation will be a substantial force in starting the substantial shift of the country that Julian refers to.




Wed Apr 25, 2007 6:08 pm
Profile


Post Re: Ch. 2 - The Year of Eating Locally
I have just posted a comment on the Chapter 1 thread where I defend that apart from the question of how to make McKibben's suggestions true there is the question of whether we all want to see his suggestions become reality. I see in this thread that you also concentrate on how to implement the changes necessary to make McKibben's vision true and I assume



Thu Apr 26, 2007 2:49 pm
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 11 posts ] • Topic evaluate: Evaluations: 0, 0.00 on the average.Evaluations: 0, 0.00 on the average.Evaluations: 0, 0.00 on the average.Evaluations: 0, 0.00 on the average.Evaluations: 0, 0.00 on the average. 



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:

Announcements 

• Promote Your Fiction Book on BookTalk.org
Sun Jul 30, 2017 7:33 pm

• Promote Your Non-Fiction Book on BookTalk.org
Sun Jul 30, 2017 7:18 pm



Site Resources 
HELPFUL INFO:
Forum Rules & Tips
Frequently Asked Questions
BBCode Explained
Author Interview Transcripts
Be a Book Discussion Leader!

IDEAS FOR WHAT TO READ:
Bestsellers
Book Awards
• Book Reviews
• Online Books
• Team Picks
Newspaper Book Sections

WHERE TO BUY BOOKS:
• Great resource pages are coming!

BEHIND THE BOOKS:
• Great resource pages are coming!

PROMOTE YOUR BOOK!
Advertise on BookTalk.org
How To Promote Your Book





BookTalk.org is a thriving book discussion forum, online reading group or book club. We read and talk about both fiction and non-fiction books as a community. Our forums are open to anyone in the world. While discussing books is our passion we also have active forums for talking about poetry, short stories, writing and authors. Our general discussion forum section includes forums for discussing science, religion, philosophy, politics, history, current events, arts, entertainment and more. We hope you join us!


Navigation 
MAIN NAVIGATION

HOMEFORUMSOUR BOOKSAUTHOR INTERVIEWSADVERTISELINKSFAQDONATETERMS OF USEPRIVACY POLICYSITEMAP

OTHER PAGES WORTH EXPLORING
Banned Book ListOnline Reading GroupTop 10 Atheism Books

Copyright © BookTalk.org 2002-2019. All rights reserved.
Display Pagerank