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Matthew 7:12 - Mistranslation found in most Bibles versions of - The Golden Rule

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Worlds

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Matthew 7:12 - Mistranslation found in most Bibles versions of - The Golden Rule

Matthew 7:12 - Mistranslation found in most Bibles versions of - The Golden Rule

https://www.docw.us/mistranslations
Last edited by Worlds on Mon Sep 26, 2022 1:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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LanDroid

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Re: Matthew 7:12 - Mistranslation found in most Bibles versions of - The Golden Rule

Matthew 7:12

So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.
- New International Version (NIV)

Therefore, everything that you believe others should do to you, you are to do to them: for this is the law and the prophets.
- Disciples of Christ version
I do not see any difference between "what you would have them do to you" and "everything that you believe others should do to you."
A team of 15 biblical scholars, representing a variety of evangelical denominations, worked from the oldest copies of reliable texts, variously written in Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek. Each section was subjected to multiple translations and revisions, and those assessed in detail to produce the best option. Everyday Bible readers were used to provide feedback on ease of understanding and comprehensibility. Finally, plans were made to continue revision of the Bible as new discoveries were made and as changes in the use of the English language occurred.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_International_Version
There's a description of how the New International Version (NIV) was developed. How is the Disciples of Christ version being developed? I dare say there is not one biblical scholar among them that can read any ancient languages. Therefore it appears they are making minor tweaks to certain versions that "sound better," then claim they are correcting a translation. I'll go out on a limb and state that due to a much more rigorous process, the NIV is a more accurate translation of ancient texts than anything the Disciples of Christ create.
_______________________________________________________
When you spread out your hands in prayer, I will hide My eyes from you; even though you multiply your prayers, I will not listen. Your hands are covered with blood.
Isaiah 1:15

But if there is serious injury, you are to take life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burn for burn, wound for wound, bruise for bruise.
Exodus 21: 23 - 25
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Re: Matthew 7:12 - Mistranslation found in most Bibles versions of - The Golden Rule

LanDroid wrote: Sun Sep 25, 2022 8:10 pm How is the Disciples of Christ version being developed? I dare say there is not one biblical scholar among them that can read any ancient languages.

Actually there are probably quite a few, odd as that may seem. Disciples of Christ is not a tiny denomination or sect, but an established denomination with institutions for training clergy, which would therefore employ scholars trained in reading at least Hebrew and Koine Greek. Unless you know something I don't, your guess should be that they have some.
Therefore it appears they are making minor tweaks to certain versions that "sound better," then claim they are correcting a translation. I'll go out on a limb and state that due to a much more rigorous process, the NIV is a more accurate translation of ancient texts than anything the Disciples of Christ create.
I would agree with that guess. Pooling across a number of denominations means a much bigger pool of scholars, with time to delve into the difficult parts. We have probably passed "peak translations" with the value added from new efforts being very, very limited.

There is on-going scholarly research that from time to time finds significant new interpretations, often based on classics work from outside the realm of biblical scholarship. A large body of research into the church in the Middle East, mostly from before Islam, turned up real innovations in thought about biblical interpretation from about the time of "Pagans and Christians" by Robin Lane Fox (1986) to very recently, like within the last 5 years or so.

Lane Fox, for example, suggested that Muslim minarets might have been an outgrowth of the Stylites of the Middle East, guys who perched themselves on pillars and were brought food by pious supporters. That is quite controversial, but the relationship between Byzantine era Christianity and early Islam remains a fruitful area of research, with interesting new sources turning up from time to time.

But it would be extravagant to suppose that even substantial scholarly innovations are going to change translation much. Pauline scholarship has changed in the last decade, moving toward different interpretations of the key theological work in Romans, yet the words remain what they are. Whether a Greek term gets translated as "salvation" or "justification" or something else may rock the scholarly world, but in the context of the writing, it will not much matter to most readers.
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Re: Matthew 7:12 - Mistranslation found in most Bibles versions of - The Golden Rule

Harry, I expect you are referring to a different group. If you click the link up top and watch a few videos you get the sense this is a one man operation.
Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.
Matthew 12:31
King James Version
For example, in the video for the verse quoted above, the narrator starts with "All right guys, what's up? I'm showing you this mistranslation I found in the Bible..." Not we, "I found." He focuses on the word "shall" and notes other translations use the words "will" or "can" instead. Then he decides which word is correct based on.....hand waiving as far as I can tell, but ultimately agreeing with the New International Version in this case. There are similar statements and contradictions in Mark and Luke, but he avoids that. Clearly he is not an academic scholar.

Have another look around, see what you think... He's usually wearing a wool cap placing a Red Cross on his forehead. He is slightly entertaining in a weird way...
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Re: Matthew 7:12 - Mistranslation found in most Bibles versions of - The Golden Rule

LanDroid wrote: Tue Sep 27, 2022 2:38 am Harry, I expect you are referring to a different group. If you click the link up top and watch a few videos you get the sense this is a one man operation.
Well, I listened, and I certainly see what you mean. Mr. Woolhead is clearly operating on his own and more than a little idiosyncratic, and far from an academic scholar. But the full story is a little stranger than what you conclude if you stop there.

His comparison of Disciples of Christ translation to the NIV is not a consistent m.o. He seems to shop around a bit. But he does seem to identify himself with the DoC, though maybe one of the splinters off the group, such as the Non-Denominationalists (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian ... of_Christ) where the reference is mercifully in the first paragraph of a very long article).

The Disciples came from a movement to avoid denominations and claimed to get everything back on a biblical basis, at the time of the Second Great Awakening in the U.S. They are an idiosyncratic group in general - one offshoot is the Church of Christ, which does not allow instrumental music in church. A capella only. So anyone schooled in the DoC tradition would be likely to indulge in hairsplitting interpretations. That's what I would guess is going on with WoolHead.

But the Disciples is actually a big movement, with influence beyond its numbers. The wiki list of members includes Presidents Johnson and Reagan, among many others. So it would not be likely that they have no biblical scholars behind their translation. Just weird biblical scholars, if you catch my drift.

Then, in my reading, along comes WoolHead and attempts to help everyone see the light with his extremely careful (and carefully extreme?) discussion of the wording in some particular passages, based on comparing different translations into English. If you are into that sort of thing, he is as likely to be correct as the Jehovah's Witnesses and other groups who swam against the tide based on the particular verses and themes they wanted to emphasize.

Anyway, thanks for flagging this oddity. Not a great way to get kicks, but there are worse.
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Re: Matthew 7:12 - Mistranslation found in most Bibles versions of - The Golden Rule

The video host never introduces himself. Therefore, as Harry suggests, he shall henceforth be known as "Mr. WoolHead" or just "WoolHead,"

In the following 2:45 minute long video, Mr. WoolHead attempts to tackle a confusing verse stripped of context; "an interesting / controversial mistranslation by the KJV and all other versions of the Bible."
But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice:
Matthew 9:13
King James Version / Truncated
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITjMUD78_so
Notice there is a colon at the end of that quote. The rest of it has been stripped off. Here is the complete verse.
But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.
Matthew 9:13
King James Version / Full verse
Uh-Oh right away, we see some manipulation going on. Where does WoolHead go from here?
He states those sacrifices "include a priest sacrificing a lamb, a ram, two doves, and young pigeons." Oh no, although we are required to make those sacrifices, we simply cannot have that going on! There must be some explanation, some way to resolve this contradiction, how to ignore something we are required to do? And indeed, WoolHead employs a single "word" that resolves the entire controversy.
THYSIAN
Yes! At long last, you cracked the puzzle Mr. WoolHead! Well done! :appl:
Mr. Marks wrote:So anyone schooled in the DoC tradition would be likely to indulge in hairsplitting interpretations. That's what I would guess is going on with WoolHead.
:up: :clap2:
_______________________________________________________
When you spread out your hands in prayer, I will hide My eyes from you; even though you multiply your prayers, I will not listen. Your hands are covered with blood.
Isaiah 1:15

But if there is serious injury, you are to take life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burn for burn, wound for wound, bruise for bruise.
Exodus 21: 23 - 25
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