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AHA withdraws award to Richard Dawkins

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Re: AHA withdraws award to Richard Dawkins

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Now that's some logic I can work with.
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Re: AHA withdraws award to Richard Dawkins

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Yes and for that matter are the women in your family going to be comfortable if this man is required to use the women's bathroom? Ummm....NO!

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Re: AHA withdraws award to Richard Dawkins

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DB Roy wrote:I don't know what he said that wasn't true. He said we call a transgender female a female out of kindness. What's false about that? That is EXACTLY what we do. If I choose to not be kind about it, the situation would turn toxic pretty quickly. And there are a lot of people who do indeed choose not to be kind about it.

As for blacks, it has been a pretty convenient thing as of late--demanding justice for George Floyd and denouncing the racism of society and then turning around and yelling "Fucking chink!" and knocking an API woman down and kicking her while screaming at her to back to China. Yeah. I would say that black identity is pretty convenient under those circumstances.
Have blacks as a group shown disregard for API people? That the man who committed the outrage against the Asian woman was black doesn't signify a general attitude. Maybe you mean that you expected a denunciation from black spokespeople and didn't get it--but I don't know.

In my view, it's not black identity being asserted throughout the George Floyd, et al, killings. It's blacks' rights to be treated fairly by law enforcement.
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Re: AHA withdraws award to Richard Dawkins

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Mr. Pessimistic wrote: I agree that the far left (whoever the fuck that may be) is going a bit too far for my liking and the Uber PC shit is a ball and chain on future progress. It will still happen, but it's being hindered rather than helped with all the new outrages every day.

IMO, they are actually hurting progress that has been made. Opinions that go against what one believes must still be admitted to the convo, or its not a convo and you can find yourself guilty of the same ignorance you are fighting against.

We deserve to hear the other side. Yes deserve. How else can we fully understand our positions?
I think that probably Dawkins doesn't care about this retraction of an honor. Maybe the AHA's action just shows him he doesn't care to be connected with that outfit. Party lines are in general not good things, but they seem to be getting more pervasive. I sometimes think the shrug is a gesture that should be used more often.
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Re: AHA withdraws award to Richard Dawkins

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LanDroid wrote:Yes and for that matter are the women in your family going to be comfortable if this man is required to use the women's bathroom? Ummm....NO!

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Who is this? Actually, the women in my family are Uber tolerant and would not have any issues. But is this person one who wants to use women's bathrooms, or are you just continuing the jokes?
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Re: AHA withdraws award to Richard Dawkins

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Chaz Bono, formerly Cher's daughter Chastity. No, Chaz does not want to use the women's bathroom, but some folks want to force him to do so. I have not posted any jokes in this thread.
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Re: AHA withdraws award to Richard Dawkins

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Another question: Is the bathroom use matter really an actual issue?
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Re: AHA withdraws award to Richard Dawkins

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Mr. Pessimistic wrote: With that said, I am much more tolerant of the 'left' because the 'right' today consists of hideous and horrible people. People who use their religion, rather than live it. People who outright hate and do not accept anything other than what they want to be real. People who, as can be easily shown... So much so that I WILL NOT, were practicing cancel culture and a twisting of message for centuries to oppress people who they did not like or accept. Because basically, the right is out of their minds and they do not care.
I wanted to pursue this further because it's a great point that for me goes to the problem of what to do about the excess that inevitably comes along with any movement. I see excess in the "woke" movement, some of which has been commented on in this thread as out of control PC. But I don't go as far as to say that the excess now defines the left/liberal side. I see mostly a lot of sane pursuit of causes I believe in, such as environmental repair and justice, social justice, and working toward economic equality. On the right, though, like you, I see the excess has infected the mainstream much more deeply. Compare Antifa with the groups represented by the mob that stormed the Capitol. Is there any real equivalence? I don't see it. That the Republican party still kowtows to a former president who made a career out of lying just about says it all. Look at the efforts by many states to make voting more difficult or to pass laws stifling protest. I don't see anything so damaging to our democracy now being pushed by the left.
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Re: AHA withdraws award to Richard Dawkins

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DWill wrote:I think that probably Dawkins doesn't care about this retraction of an honor. Maybe the AHA's action just shows him he doesn't care to be connected with that outfit. Party lines are in general not good things, but they seem to be getting more pervasive. I sometimes think the shrug is a gesture that should be used more often.
I love this last line by the way.

I'm trying to see the controversy in the AHA's withdrawing of some honor it bestowed on Richard Dawkins over something he said. I guess that's the AHA's prerogative, since it bestowed the honor on Dawkins in the first place. But in the end, who cares? I shrug.

Also, I don't know anything about the AHA, only that I associate "humanist" with "atheist" and it always seems suspect to form a group around the idea of lacking belief in something. I do realize that humanist means more than atheist, that it promotes human values without a god and I generally agree with the principle, but the bottom line is this is a private organization with political goals.

And for the record I have no problem with Dawkins' statement, though I don't equate Rachel Dolezal's identification as a black person anything remotely like men who feel like a woman and vice versa. My understanding is that gender disphoria is biological. Also the tweet in question literally asks us to discuss this issue, which grants Dawkins much latitude, in my opinion. The AHA seems to be posturing for its own sake.

Ezra Klein discusses the cancel culture in a recent column. In most cases, we criticize someone for making a stupid or insensitive remark and our intent is not to "cancel" them, though that is sometimes the end result.
To debate whether these punishments were fair is to commit a category error. These weren’t verdicts weighed and delivered on behalf of society. These were the actions of self-interested organizations that had decided their employees were now liabilities.


The AHA is a self-interested organization.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/18/opin ... media.html

Apologies if this article is behind a paywall.
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Re: AHA withdraws award to Richard Dawkins

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DWill wrote: Have blacks as a group shown disregard for API people?
The correct question should be "Is there a sizable portion of blacks who have enmity for API people?" The answer is yes. And, yes, there are a lot of API people who don't like blacks but they aren't beating up blacks in the streets. There are areas of California and New York where blacks harbor a tremendous dislike for API people.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFwA0UwnuS8
"Black Korea" by Ice Cube

They resent that some API group or other have stores in "their" neighborhoods. They resent the way they are or claim they are treated in these stores. The case of Latasha Harlins is dragged up constantly even though her death was as much a result of her bad judgment as it was the store clerk who shot her. "Why are all these Koreans here?" one black person online asked me. "Where are all the black businesses?" I answered that I don't know where the black businesses are but I am pretty sure that isn't anything the Korean storeowners should have to answer for. The unspoken truth is that black business owners know all too well what will happen to their stores in those areas and that too has nothing to do with Koreans:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wepmrX9n1uw

But you can't reason with people who commit crime and insist they are the victims. Thankfully, it isn't most blacks but it is a significant number of them and they make life hell for API in those neighborhoods. Another guy said to me that these Asians never shop at black-owned stores in those neighborhoods (I thought there weren't any). Before I could answer that, another black person answered it for me by pointing out that it is, in fact, blacks that go into the Asian areas and cause trouble, steal and hurt people and never the other way around. I added that any black who resents the Koreans in those neighborhoods can elect never to spend money there but that doesn't mean to go into those establishments and steal. Just stay out of them--problem solved.
That the man who committed the outrage against the Asian woman was black doesn't signify a general attitude. Maybe you mean that you expected a denunciation from black spokespeople and didn't get it--but I don't know. [/quote[

Wrong on both counts. It isn't a general attitude of blacks towards Asians. I live in a predominantly black neighborhood. No one has given me any trouble and I don't expect anyone to. And there are plenty of blacks speaking out against the violence. The problem is, as I have stated, that there is a sizable number of blacks who resent API people. It's not most blacks but it's still a sizable amount and their actions are very damaging not only to API but to their own communities and causes. I don't know what can be done about it. Five idiots acting badly can outdo everything good that the other 95 have done.
In my view, it's not black identity being asserted throughout the George Floyd, et al, killings. It's blacks' rights to be treated fairly by law enforcement.
But the actions of that certain percentage of blacks is hurting that cause. And there are no shortage blacks pointing that out. But it doesn't seem to change anything.
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