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AHA withdraws award to Richard Dawkins 
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Post Re: AHA withdraws award to Richard Dawkins
Chaz Bono, formerly Cher's daughter Chastity. No, Chaz does not want to use the women's bathroom, but some folks want to force him to do so. I have not posted any jokes in this thread.



Thu Apr 22, 2021 6:06 am
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Post Re: AHA withdraws award to Richard Dawkins
Another question: Is the bathroom use matter really an actual issue?


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Thu Apr 22, 2021 6:07 am
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Post Re: AHA withdraws award to Richard Dawkins
Mr. Pessimistic wrote:
With that said, I am much more tolerant of the 'left' because the 'right' today consists of hideous and horrible people. People who use their religion, rather than live it. People who outright hate and do not accept anything other than what they want to be real. People who, as can be easily shown... So much so that I WILL NOT, were practicing cancel culture and a twisting of message for centuries to oppress people who they did not like or accept. Because basically, the right is out of their minds and they do not care.

I wanted to pursue this further because it's a great point that for me goes to the problem of what to do about the excess that inevitably comes along with any movement. I see excess in the "woke" movement, some of which has been commented on in this thread as out of control PC. But I don't go as far as to say that the excess now defines the left/liberal side. I see mostly a lot of sane pursuit of causes I believe in, such as environmental repair and justice, social justice, and working toward economic equality. On the right, though, like you, I see the excess has infected the mainstream much more deeply. Compare Antifa with the groups represented by the mob that stormed the Capitol. Is there any real equivalence? I don't see it. That the Republican party still kowtows to a former president who made a career out of lying just about says it all. Look at the efforts by many states to make voting more difficult or to pass laws stifling protest. I don't see anything so damaging to our democracy now being pushed by the left.



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Thu Apr 22, 2021 7:22 am
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Post Re: AHA withdraws award to Richard Dawkins
DWill wrote:
I think that probably Dawkins doesn't care about this retraction of an honor. Maybe the AHA's action just shows him he doesn't care to be connected with that outfit. Party lines are in general not good things, but they seem to be getting more pervasive. I sometimes think the shrug is a gesture that should be used more often.

I love this last line by the way.

I'm trying to see the controversy in the AHA's withdrawing of some honor it bestowed on Richard Dawkins over something he said. I guess that's the AHA's prerogative, since it bestowed the honor on Dawkins in the first place. But in the end, who cares? I shrug.

Also, I don't know anything about the AHA, only that I associate "humanist" with "atheist" and it always seems suspect to form a group around the idea of lacking belief in something. I do realize that humanist means more than atheist, that it promotes human values without a god and I generally agree with the principle, but the bottom line is this is a private organization with political goals.

And for the record I have no problem with Dawkins' statement, though I don't equate Rachel Dolezal's identification as a black person anything remotely like men who feel like a woman and vice versa. My understanding is that gender disphoria is biological. Also the tweet in question literally asks us to discuss this issue, which grants Dawkins much latitude, in my opinion. The AHA seems to be posturing for its own sake.

Ezra Klein discusses the cancel culture in a recent column. In most cases, we criticize someone for making a stupid or insensitive remark and our intent is not to "cancel" them, though that is sometimes the end result.

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To debate whether these punishments were fair is to commit a category error. These weren’t verdicts weighed and delivered on behalf of society. These were the actions of self-interested organizations that had decided their employees were now liabilities.


The AHA is a self-interested organization.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/18/opin ... media.html

Apologies if this article is behind a paywall.


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Thu Apr 22, 2021 9:43 am
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Post Re: AHA withdraws award to Richard Dawkins
DWill wrote:
Have blacks as a group shown disregard for API people?


The correct question should be "Is there a sizable portion of blacks who have enmity for API people?" The answer is yes. And, yes, there are a lot of API people who don't like blacks but they aren't beating up blacks in the streets. There are areas of California and New York where blacks harbor a tremendous dislike for API people.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFwA0UwnuS8
"Black Korea" by Ice Cube

They resent that some API group or other have stores in "their" neighborhoods. They resent the way they are or claim they are treated in these stores. The case of Latasha Harlins is dragged up constantly even though her death was as much a result of her bad judgment as it was the store clerk who shot her. "Why are all these Koreans here?" one black person online asked me. "Where are all the black businesses?" I answered that I don't know where the black businesses are but I am pretty sure that isn't anything the Korean storeowners should have to answer for. The unspoken truth is that black business owners know all too well what will happen to their stores in those areas and that too has nothing to do with Koreans:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wepmrX9n1uw

But you can't reason with people who commit crime and insist they are the victims. Thankfully, it isn't most blacks but it is a significant number of them and they make life hell for API in those neighborhoods. Another guy said to me that these Asians never shop at black-owned stores in those neighborhoods (I thought there weren't any). Before I could answer that, another black person answered it for me by pointing out that it is, in fact, blacks that go into the Asian areas and cause trouble, steal and hurt people and never the other way around. I added that any black who resents the Koreans in those neighborhoods can elect never to spend money there but that doesn't mean to go into those establishments and steal. Just stay out of them--problem solved.

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That the man who committed the outrage against the Asian woman was black doesn't signify a general attitude. Maybe you mean that you expected a denunciation from black spokespeople and didn't get it--but I don't know. [/quote[

Wrong on both counts. It isn't a general attitude of blacks towards Asians. I live in a predominantly black neighborhood. No one has given me any trouble and I don't expect anyone to. And there are plenty of blacks speaking out against the violence. The problem is, as I have stated, that there is a sizable number of blacks who resent API people. It's not most blacks but it's still a sizable amount and their actions are very damaging not only to API but to their own communities and causes. I don't know what can be done about it. Five idiots acting badly can outdo everything good that the other 95 have done.

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In my view, it's not black identity being asserted throughout the George Floyd, et al, killings. It's blacks' rights to be treated fairly by law enforcement.


But the actions of that certain percentage of blacks is hurting that cause. And there are no shortage blacks pointing that out. But it doesn't seem to change anything.



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Thu Apr 22, 2021 10:46 pm
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Post Re: AHA withdraws award to Richard Dawkins
Just so I am following, is the argument that because some blacks are based against API folks, that it invalidates the fact that white folks destroyed black lives and opportunities for a long time via slavery? And that their claims are somehow fabricated or disingenuous?

This is a serious question so I can better understand this convo.


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Fri Apr 23, 2021 6:00 am
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Post Re: AHA withdraws award to Richard Dawkins
DB Roy wrote:
. . . The correct question should be "Is there a sizable portion of blacks who have enmity for API people?" The answer is yes. And, yes, there are a lot of API people who don't like blacks but they aren't beating up blacks in the streets. .


These are very broad generalizations, of course, and so my comment is necessarily speculative and a tangent to boot. But if it's true that blacks resent Asians, it could be explained in terms of rivalries in America's caste system. Isabelle Wilkerson calls this "crabs in a barrel." 'That there's much jockeying for position in America because no one wants to be on the bottom.

Wilkerson wrote:
The caste system thrives on dissension and inequality, envy and false rivalries, that build up in a world of perceived scarcity. As people elbow for position, the greatest tensions arise between those adjacent to one another, up and down the ladder. . . . These behaviors unwittingly work to maintain the hierarchy that those betraying their brethren are seeking to escape.


This is not to excuse any behavior of one group trying too put down another. But it could be that Asian-Pacificans are seen as trying to cut in line in terms of their acceptance in America. Such attitudes can be seen as a symptom of racial inequality and the hundreds of invisible social cues that serve to maintain the caste system in America.


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