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Is the quoted passage an example of Stream of Consciousness or is it idiosyncrasy of James Joyce?
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Master Debater Joined: Nov 2020 Posts: 20 Thanks: 15 Thanked: 8 times in 6 posts Gender: ![]() ![]() |
I'm reading James Joyce originally for the first time, I listened and read about him before (been doing it deliberately from past 6 months). To be honest, hitherto I like Joyce because T.S. Eliot and Ezra Pound liked him and said so much about his modernist works , I revere James Joyce because Finnegans Wake is considered one of those books which sheds the actual light on lifelessness of life, Now, I want to like him (the process seems to have been already started) by my own and so I'm giving a try to Ulysses.
Here is a passage from Ulysses's Part 1, Chapter 3
What happened after Stephen closed his eyes to hear his walk? Something happened, Joyce was writing something totally out of context, is it meaningful? Is it meaningless? Yes, it does seem meaningful, no it doesn't, it seems masterpiece! But what is it? nacheinander? Why German? The passage looks like a painting, different words representing different colors, the German words with German color! Punctuations are marvelous, never seen a colon after six, never seen a sentence consisting of "No" only (except when we reply to somebody, Open your eyes was a command No was a reply but who asked and who replied?) Is he writing whatever is coming to his mind (stream of consciousness)? Can he write that he is feeling hungry or smelling something foul? Is he writing all that he is thinking or is he thinking only of what he has to write? Is it only James Joyce that do things like this (I myself don't know which or what "this")? Thank you (and sorry). |
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Thu Apr 08, 2021 7:04 am |
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Master Debater Joined: Mar 2021 Posts: 21 Thanks: 0 Thanked: 9 times in 9 posts Gender: ![]() ![]() |
![]() That is the beauty of James Joyce. Sometimes, you think he is just rambling and other times he is a genius.
Someone recommended I read his work and I chose Ulysses also. I intend reviewing it next week. _________________ Novel and short story analysis: Plot, Themes, and Message |
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The following user would like to thank Emekadavid for this post: Robert Tulip |
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Thu Apr 08, 2021 10:25 am |
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One friend of mine had a practice of reading the whole of Ulysses on Bloomsday - 16 June. Quite a formidable challenge, given the strangeness of the language and its length - 730 pages. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ulysses_(novel) https://ulyssesinaday.wordpress.com/ _________________ http://rtulip.net |
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Fri Apr 09, 2021 10:24 pm |
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![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() BookTalk.org Hall of Fame ![]() ![]() Joined: Jan 2008 Posts: 6858 Location: Luray, Virginia Thanks: 2206 Thanked: 2403 times in 1812 posts Gender: ![]() Country: ![]() ![]() |
![]() I recall reading that Joyce relished the idea of professors puzzling out his meanings endlessly. So maybe there is just a bit of mischief-making in such passages. But the usual explanation for stream of consciousness (which the passage is) is that writers wanted to more realistically capture mental life. It isn't the case, after all, that as we go through the day we think in coherent paragraphs. Such coherence is a literary convention that writers like Joyce and Wolfe wanted to escape.
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The following user would like to thank DWill for this post: Knight |
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Sat Apr 10, 2021 8:01 am |
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Master Debater Joined: Nov 2020 Posts: 20 Thanks: 15 Thanked: 8 times in 6 posts Gender: ![]() ![]() |
![]() @RobertTulip There is a very high propensity of liking Joyce for the reason so many other people like him that much
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Sat Apr 10, 2021 11:07 am |
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![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Upper Echelon 3rd Class ![]() ![]() ![]() Joined: Jul 2002 Posts: 2362 Location: Cincinnati, OH Thanks: 126 Thanked: 965 times in 744 posts Gender: ![]() Country: ![]() ![]() |
![]() For what it's worth, here's my own stream of consciousness when reading Joyce's passage in the OP.
![]() First, I stop at the word "wrack." Uh oh, what is that? Checking several definitions, perhaps the best one, since he mentions shells, refers to kelp or dried seaweed. Moving on...Ok...Ok... Uh oh "nacheinander." German for "successively." Hmm...Perhaps counting steps or marking time... Moving on... Oh Lordy, "beetles o'er his base." Whaaat? Interesting, that's from Hamlet.
Well that complicates things even more - moving towards something that beckons, but be wary of madness? Moving on... Uh no, "fell through the nebeneinander ineluctably!" I got nothing, can't fathom that phrase at all. And yet in the next sentence, I need to figure out what an ash sword is outside of Pokémon. Siiiggghhh... Wow, that is a heck of a lot of work for a short paragraph! But much easier with Google; it would have been incomprehensible pre-internet except for academics? ![]() |
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The following user would like to thank LanDroid for this post: Knight |
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Sun Apr 11, 2021 1:04 pm |
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![]() I was trying to read Joyce the other day. Does not seem worth the time it will take and honestly, I cannot appreciate what he does. Let's just make shit up and be so mysterious and quirky that we become legendary... Is that it?
_________________ When you refuse to learn, you become a disease. |
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Sun Apr 11, 2021 6:15 pm |
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![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Upper Echelon 3rd Class ![]() ![]() ![]() Joined: Jul 2002 Posts: 2362 Location: Cincinnati, OH Thanks: 126 Thanked: 965 times in 744 posts Gender: ![]() Country: ![]() ![]() |
![]() Thinking about it further, it seems Joyce ties that passage from Hamlet to Ulysses and sirens sweetly singing. Does anyone agree with that link? I expect it's a skillful point, but as Mr. Pessimistic suggests, it takes a lot to get there. I don't think I could handle another paragraph until tomorrow. Maybe I can handle two per day once I'm retired.
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The following user would like to thank LanDroid for this post: Knight |
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Sun Apr 11, 2021 7:08 pm |
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Master Debater Joined: Nov 2020 Posts: 20 Thanks: 15 Thanked: 8 times in 6 posts Gender: ![]() ![]() |
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That is something I want to know, I mean how you do it ![]() |
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Mon Apr 12, 2021 9:28 am |
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![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Upper Echelon 3rd Class ![]() ![]() ![]() Joined: Jul 2002 Posts: 2362 Location: Cincinnati, OH Thanks: 126 Thanked: 965 times in 744 posts Gender: ![]() Country: ![]() ![]() |
![]() Well I just googled "beetles o'er his base" and it came up. I am not a scholar of Shakespeare, got lucky on that.
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The following user would like to thank LanDroid for this post: Knight |
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Tue Apr 13, 2021 5:51 am |
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Master Debater Joined: Mar 2021 Posts: 21 Thanks: 0 Thanked: 9 times in 9 posts Gender: ![]() ![]() |
![]() I did a review of Ulysses on my channel, stating the main themes and the message as I perceive it.
I hope you do watch it and give me comments. Ulysses is dense but I tried my best after being on it for a week. https://youtu.be/Sd95-K8zg1E Enjoy _________________ Novel and short story analysis: Plot, Themes, and Message |
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The following user would like to thank Emekadavid for this post: Knight |
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Sat Apr 17, 2021 12:43 am |
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