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Trump Watch 
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Post Re: Trump Watch
We'll have to suffer Trump for some time to come. I never saw anybody with so many legal woes. I too would like to dump him in the trash bin of history and forget about him but, as you say, we have to go after him. He has to pay for what he's done. We have to send a message to the next demagogue waiting in the wings. Break all your promises but don't break the law.

Besides, I have to admit it is amusing to see the QAnon idiots crying because this idiotic belief system they invested every fiber of their being into has evaporated before their very eyes just like that. All the Christian nationalist preachers are eating crow and not able to explain how god assured them of a huge Trump win and then gave it to Biden. Most of them are doubling down. "Trump WILL be president--mark my words!!!" Really? Too late now. Even if they kill him, they'll just put Kamala Harris in the driver's seat. They've been strangely silent about her. Even stranger considering that Biden may well abdicate the throne to her in 2024 because he'll just be too old to run for a second term.

I also love seeing Trump trying to deal with his loss. You can see that it just kills him. Even after everything he tried to do to kill the vote against him. Didn't matter. He failed to get a second term like Obama got--oh, that just kills him!! He will be remembered as the only president to get impeached twice, ignored a pandemic that killed hundreds of thousands. the only president to incite a mob of loons to stop the democratic process in which people were killed, might yet be the first impeached president to get tossed from office even if it is after the fact. But there ae serious problems too such as running the deficit up higher than it's ever been and allowing big business to wreck the environment.

So let's not kill off Trump yet. This is just starting to get good!



Mon Jan 25, 2021 8:19 pm
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Post Re: Trump Watch
I’m onboard with what you’re writing DB. For me there’s ‘schadenfreude’ in the failure of FPSfB’s FYIGM mentality. QAnon is down in the dumps for the loss of the last minute power grab that never could happen. FPSfB. Becomes a part of the deep state.

Joe B said from the git go that he was not going to run for a second term. 2024 will be Kamala’s show. Getting rid of FPSfB’s was Joe’s singular promise. He’s fulfilled his words, undoing FPSfB policies is the icing on the cake, (not to say we’ll be skating free) certainly we’r skating on thin ice as far as political edges are concerned. The margins remain narrow. A charismatic demagogue could rise to the times and blow the doors off of what we’ve viewed politically so far. I’ll do what I can to prevent that. In the meantime there’s an agenda being delivered that gives me hope for the future of labor.

We’ve had 40 years of deficit spending, we’ll have to get used to a few more years of freaked out budgets before we can begin to put that particular boogeyman to rest. Regulation of environmental impact and adjustment towards a more appropriate tax code on big business and wealth beyond the domestic levels will have a major impact towards the financing of sustainable growth and development. ( it will take money.. lots of money to make the world a better place).



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Mon Jan 25, 2021 9:14 pm
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Post Re: Trump Watch
I checked into QAnon for a bit early on as an entertaining diversion. You may have heard about "The Storm," which actually was supposed to happen late 2017 / early 2018 where Trump, working WITH Mueller, the FBI, deep state, etc. would arrest Hillary followed by mass arrests of 25,000 to 50,000 corrupt democrat pedophiles. (I didn't last very long with that, way too much Nazi influence.) Evidently "The Storm" evolved once those arrests did not happen. Now that was supposed to happen in 2019, or on the January 6 attack on the Capitol, or most definitely on inauguration day. Those folks deluded themselves with ever-changing stories for years. So yeah, QAnon is crying, but only until they can find a replacement conspiracy.

If Trump forms a new political party and destroys the republican party in the process, that would be very on-brand. Remember the demise of the US Football League, where Trump bought a team, then proceeded to destroy the entire league!
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2018/ ... d-the-usfl



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Mon Jan 25, 2021 9:18 pm
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Post Re: Trump Watch
FPSfB has the bizzaro Midas touch, he lays his small hands on it (whatever ‘it’ is) and invariably he boogers it up.

In thinking of QAnon and FPSfB..I’m thinking of boxing promoter Don King. “Only in America”



Mon Jan 25, 2021 9:29 pm
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Post Re: Trump Watch
LanDroid wrote:
If Trump forms a new political party and destroys the republican party in the process, that would be very on-brand. Remember the demise of the US Football League, where Trump bought a team, then proceeded to destroy the entire league!
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2018/ ... d-the-usfl

Many Republicans are now trying to distance themselves from Trump, like rats from a sinking ship. I have a grudging and newfound respect for Mitch McConnell for at least trying to act more human. Lindsay Graham has shifted subtly from his previous position as sycophant, always keeping a finger raised to see which way the wind will blow next. And the all-in candidates like Ted Cruz and Hawley are digging in because they've already sold their soul to the Devil. But Cruz, in particular, seems to always be making the wrong move at the wrong time. Remember when these idiots were warning us against Trump? They should have included themselves in their warnings. For its partisan hacks like them that almost doomed our democracy.


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Tue Jan 26, 2021 10:30 am
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Post Re: Trump Watch
Taylor wrote:
I’m onboard with what you’re writing DB. For me there’s ‘schadenfreude’ in the failure of FPSfB’s FYIGM mentality. QAnon is down in the dumps for the loss of the last minute power grab that never could happen. FPSfB. Becomes a part of the deep state.

Joe B said from the git go that he was not going to run for a second term. 2024 will be Kamala’s show. Getting rid of FPSfB’s was Joe’s singular promise. He’s fulfilled his words, undoing FPSfB policies is the icing on the cake, (not to say we’ll be skating free) certainly we’r skating on thin ice as far as political edges are concerned. The margins remain narrow. A charismatic demagogue could rise to the times and blow the doors off of what we’ve viewed politically so far. I’ll do what I can to prevent that. In the meantime there’s an agenda being delivered that gives me hope for the future of labor.

We’ve had 40 years of deficit spending, we’ll have to get used to a few more years of freaked out budgets before we can begin to put that particular boogeyman to rest. Regulation of environmental impact and adjustment towards a more appropriate tax code on big business and wealth beyond the domestic levels will have a major impact towards the financing of sustainable growth and development. ( it will take money.. lots of money to make the world a better place).

Going off topic, Taylor, I can't find any clear statements of Biden's intent to be a one-termer or a two. As hard as it might be to imagine a president retiring at 86 years old, it wouldn't totally surprise me to see Biden give 8 years a go. This is an ambitious guy, a quality that his plain Joe exterior obscures. Logistically, it's awkward to pass the mantle to Harris for '24. Wouldn't he have to make his plan known by about the middle of '23, making him a lame duck for the rest of his term? And he couldn't just resign without a really good reason (i.e., health crisis), handing the office over to his VP. That would be unethical and underhanded. They talk about how the presidency ages a person. Biden's already plenty aged. I hope he doesn't regret his decision to run!



Tue Jan 26, 2021 7:51 pm
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Post Re: Trump Watch
Taylor wrote:
FPSfB has the bizzaro Midas touch, he lays his small hands on it (whatever ‘it’ is) and invariably he boogers it up.

In thinking of QAnon and FPSfB..I’m thinking of boxing promoter Don King. “Only in America”

Sorry, I cannot stop myself.

King Midas in reverse.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bzB7nqh-O5g


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Wed Jan 27, 2021 5:57 pm
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Post Re: Trump Watch
geo wrote:
Many Republicans are now trying to distance themselves from Trump, like rats from a sinking ship. I have a grudging and newfound respect for Mitch McConnell for at least trying to act more human. Lindsay Graham has shifted subtly from his previous position as sycophant, always keeping a finger raised to see which way the wind will blow next. And the all-in candidates like Ted Cruz and Hawley are digging in because they've already sold their soul to the Devil. But Cruz, in particular, seems to always be making the wrong move at the wrong time. Remember when these idiots were warning us against Trump? They should have included themselves in their warnings. For its partisan hacks like them that almost doomed our democracy.

The rats seem to still be hedging their bets. What's the problem with these people? How much louder an alarm bell do they need? After his big, dramatic. "We're done, bro," on the Senate floor, Graham is back to counseling Trump. McConnell, after not saying whether he would vote to convict Trump, now doesn't even want a trial to be held.

With convicting Trump an impossibility, for me Sen. Tim Kaine's solution is best: a bipartisan censure of Trump. That would waste little time that is better spent on Biden's agenda. Those Senators who're claiming that trying a former president is unconstitutional wouldn't be able to hide behind that excuse. They'd have to vote to censure or else be on record as saying that Trump did nothing especially wrong, or that the mob attack on the Capitol wasn't the disaster it was depicted as. They'd each have to show the American public where they stand on the root cause of the Capitol attack: the lie that Biden didn't win in a free and fair election.



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Thu Jan 28, 2021 9:37 am
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Post Re: Trump Watch
DWill wrote:
With convicting Trump an impossibility, for me Sen. Tim Kaine's solution is best: a bipartisan censure of Trump. That would waste little time that is better spent on Biden's agenda. Those Senators who're claiming that trying a former president is unconstitutional wouldn't be able to hide behind that excuse. They'd have to vote to censure or else be on record as saying that Trump did nothing especially wrong, or that the mob attack on the Capitol wasn't the disaster it was depicted as. They'd each have to show the American public where they stand on the root cause of the Capitol attack: the lie that Biden didn't win in a free and fair election.

I completely agree. Unfortunately convicting Trump doesn't seem to be in the cards. It isn't clear to me why that choice doesn't present the same issue that censure does, but I suppose there is some cowardly option to let him off on a technicality. Perhaps they would want to say, "He may have stirred them up but he didn't actually advocate violence" which would probably be technically correct. Narcissists are experts at inciting without committing, especially after many decades of practice.

Requiring a forthright stand, as with the censure of Joe McCarthy, would be the best turning point possible, to get Republicans of authority on the record opposing the big lie. They have been remarkably coy about stating it without being confronted.



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Post Re: Trump Watch
Is Kaine's proposal just a censure or a censure under Section III of the 14th Amendment (which would bar him from seeking office again)? At least if it's a 14th Amendment censure then there is SOME punitive action for Trump's incitement of a mob. If it's just a slap-on-the-wrist censure, then why bother?



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Post Re: Trump Watch
I think once the House delivers articles of impeachment to the Senate, they must hold a trial. There's no way around that. Sounds again like no conviction, but we have to get it done and move on.
Quote:
Sen. Tim Kaine (D-Va.) said Thursday that he is looking at next week to file his resolution to formally condemn former President Trump and try to bar him from holding future office. Kaine is still gathering input but has drafted a resolution that would formally censure Trump. It also includes provisions that would mirror language in Section 3 of the 14th Amendment on barring officials from holding future office.

"In a way I view it as kind of censure-plus because it has these two factual findings that could have the same consequence as an impeachment conviction," Kaine said. "It's not just, 'hey you did those things and that's bad.' "

1/28/21
https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/536 ... rom-future

So I think that answers MaineDave's question question and it looks good. Do both - the impeachment trial must go on, but also do the censure-plus. Trump must be prohibited from running again. Dual impeachments and a censure-plus should send a clear signal, but it is not enough. What are the NY State prosecutors doing? Without further consequences future autocrats will pick up where Trump left off and that will be the end of The Republic. No pressure.



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Post Re: Trump Watch
MaineDave wrote:
Is Kaine's proposal just a censure or a censure under Section III of the 14th Amendment (which would bar him from seeking office again)? At least if it's a 14th Amendment censure then there is SOME punitive action for Trump's incitement of a mob. If it's just a slap-on-the-wrist censure, then why bother?


@ MaineDave: first thanks for jumping in here, welcome to BookTalk.Org.

I’m thinking that beyond a senate vote to actually convict FPSfB of “Incitement of Insurrection” censure is a long shot attempt at preventing T**** (I refuse to spell the actual name of the 45th president) from holding a future Federal Office of Honor, Trust or Profit. I’m reflecting on history. In particular I’m thinking of Joe McCarthy and Bill Clinton. The former was censured but only actual death kept him from holding additional offices of “honor, trust or profit”. McCarthy was a weirdness that was a genuine American original, Same/Similar as in a unique situation with Clinton, he was impeached in lieu of censure and like T**** (45) FPSfB. Was acquitted at trial.

Section III of the 14th Amendment in my opinion requires conviction in the senate which then allows a simple majority vote to bar future federal office of honor, trust or profit. Censure doesn’t guarantee the future barring of offices to any individual in question because the sections sited have vagaries of interpretation due to a lack of specifics. As I written (i think). We are venturing into new territory, unique legal concepts. The 14th amendment can be interpreted as a barring of future political positions, but it hinges on it being interpreted as being a capable legal precedent. I personally have little faith that the current court or congress has the mental health of mind to rationally think through the complexity of current affairs.

Anything less than conviction of “High Crimes and Misdemeanors” (which “Incitement to Insurrection” falls well within the category of) will not diminish potential future MAGA influences which because of their weird thinking caused the mess we see ourselves living with now. For me there is a complexity here, John Roberts, the Chief Justice has declined to preside over T****’S second impeachment trial. According to Roberts, he (Roberts) lacks requirement to preside because T**** is no longer a sitting president. Roberts ignores, in my opinion, the second part of impeachment. Which is the actual barring of future offices. Robert is setting this unprecedented impeachment trial up for what is surely to be a future Supreme Court Case.

Censure can be merely a “slap-on-the-wrist”. We are venturing into new territory not only legally but morally, politically and believe it or not, economically as well. We are witnessing the fight between labor and libertarian ideas. I fear that libertarianism will win the day, possibly many days to come, if not years. You see, It all comes to money.

Who’s money is the community going to fight for? Lately, it’s been corporate dollars that seem to be most precious. Strange if you ask me. In the age of conglomerates, an era of corporate dominance. We the people who have championed individual liberty now seem to be standing alone. In the age of conglomerates.. collusion, organization, planning, control, divide and conquer economically is the actual daily struggle we all deal with. Government has to be larger than that which is out to dominate the individual. Think about it?. Logically, the larger the conglomerate, the necessary and corresponding largeness of government must needs be.

See how complex the simple impeachment of an absolute piece of shit becomes?.

@ DWill: If I recall correctly; Joe Biden emphasized his primary motivation for a 2020 run was to get T**** out of office. As I recall, that was when the right-wing started shouting that “old Joe” had symptoms of dementia. If you recall this was about the time that our friends from the right (no names please) started going hole hog on BookTalk.Org with the recent standard market conspiracies that still seem so delicious to upwards of 75 million Americans. Anyway, So Joe, recognizes that people want FPSfB gone, Joe knows, that there is little chance of dethroning the”chosen one” but ‘Old Joe’ has hope. His hopes are strengthened by an unusual support. Black Americans think ‘Old Joe’ can be trusted as an ally, someone who is keyed to the community, the middle class. African Americans, ‘Black America’ , Rural America, it’s not just black and white. It is Latinx, Japanese, Korean, Chinese, Vietnamese.. the variations beco moot. I am Slovenian, how much variation exists among East Europeans?

So Joe B with an earnest heart, just wanted, like so many other good thinking American people wanted, an end to the absolutely worst POTUS in American History! So.. announcements are made, ‘Old Joe’ is campaigning to be front and center, mind you.. he like.. so many others ( including the Lincoln Project) have little hope.. but hope can be audacious, hope can make the most diverse of people’s coalesce to not only re-establish a tenuous community but to seed the future of some lost community through the wholesome fertilization shared cultural identity.

What happened instead was ‘;Old Joe’ was accused of being a tool of the ultra progressive left..(what ever that means) Innuendos were made that Joe was incapable of actual leadership, that he was just trying to setup some scenario that would place Michelle Obama as the actual president. I mean, there were conspiracy theories everywhere, Joe had to shut things down. I personally had to listen to some of these horseshit ideas from many people in my circle. The algorithm amplified so many bizarre ideas about ‘Old Joe’s’ intentions that he was forced to contend that he’d be in ‘it’ for a full ‘eight year term’ . Joe Biden’s intent is merely to put Trump behind us. I just want to reiterate my recollections of Biden’s early pronouncements. I too was unable to locate the specific source, in my defense there is a fluidity of action between this most recent presidential campaign and the current government that some postings may have vagaries that given current complexities pinpointed sources will be difficult to pin down.



Last edited by Taylor on Thu Jan 28, 2021 11:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.



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Post Re: Trump Watch
It is nearly 11pm; I I truly want to get into more of this.. but right now my brain is bent ‘ :razz2:



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Post Re: Trump Watch
May we have a drumroll please. The trial will shortly begin. It's too much to hope for a conviction, but if the graphic evidence the Democrats present can finally stigmatize Trump, that will be something valuable. The Democrats will also want to repeat the words of Lynn Cheney, again and again.



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Post Re: Trump Watch
It's been a tense week. Reliving that hellish day was an extension of the national trauma. The prosecution brought out what all of us absorbed almost without noticing it, because we know this monster: he did nothing to stop it. The president of the United States was happy with an attack on Congress by a mob, because they were serving his tyrant ego.

I wish it was as easy to understand the 40 percent of the country who are in denial about the election because it serves . . . what? What do they get from moving firmly into denial? What do they get by serving the monster's ego, by attaching themselves to ever more absurd claims instead of opening their eyes? A sense of solidarity? Really? When did it become so important to be in solidarity against urban, liberal culture rather than with the rest of their country?

Was it the election of a Black president, combined with his embrace of Black culture and the liberal extension of health care to those they consider unworthy? Was it a long rear-guard battle for religion and guns and against those who examine that way of life critically? Was it a deep, unacknowledged longing for a figure of strength and authority? Was it some witch's brew of all of that, simmering over the fires of Murdoch? When did the sense of persecution make them so ready to embrace unreality rather than accept their eclipse?

I have been hearing, from many quarters, the cold-eyed repudiation of "This is not who we are." I know that they are right - this is the country that has been enslaving and lynching and oppressing people for centuries, and the horrible divisiveness has been a force more powerful than our ideals of justice and equality for our entire history. Yet when I hear it I feel scorched inside, because "This is not who we are" is an affirmation of the goodness and the ideals, not a description of reality. I am not trying to deny reality, I am trying to change it, by believing that we as a country can be better than the sadistic systems that we somehow accepted and agreed not to admit the truth about.



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