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Trump Watch 
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Post Re: Trump Watch
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Day 1 Jan. 6, 2021 The votes for Georgia are challenged by a representative and a senator. The joint session is adjourned for two hours where, as shown by that Texas lawsuit, coherent arguments in the House and Senate are not required, just rabble rousing. When the joint session is reconvened, the House votes down the objections while the Senate approves the objections. Georgia’s votes are counted, but 4 hours total have passed.

Next Michigan’s votes are challenged, same scenario as above. Michigan’s votes are approved. The joint session closes at 7 pm.

Day 2 Jan. 7 Overnight the right wing media goes insane, calling for challenges to every state that Biden won.
Pennsylvania’s votes are challenged but ultimately accepted. 5 hours wasted.
Wisconsin’s votes are challenged. Same thing. The joint session closes at 11 pm with 46 states to go.

Day 3 Jan. 8 Armed gangs start marching around Washington DC. Perhaps California’s votes are challenged along with all other states that Biden won. Who knows how many days they can can drag this out, but ultimately Biden "wins." (air quotes)

- LanDroid
12/13/2020

At that time I hoped I was being paranoid, but I underestimated the craziness. Protestors stormed the capitol in the first hour!
Do we still have a functioning democracy?



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Post Re: Trump Watch
LanDroid wrote:
At that time I hoped I was being paranoid, but I underestimated the craziness. Protestors stormed the capitol in the first hour!
Do we still have a functioning democracy?

I've been listening to the joint session proceedings tonight and amazingly it seems that many Republicans who had previously gone along with Trump's madness have now reached a breaking point. In inciting a mob, Trump apparently crossed a line today. I had long given up that there was a line. Even Lindsey Graham has unequivocally endorsed Biden's and Harris' election. And Trump's twitter account has been suspended. What a crazy day!

Two weeks to go and PSfB will be gone. And President Biden will preside over a Democrat-controlled Senate and House. So, yes, I think we still have a functioning democracy!


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Post Re: Trump Watch
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_ina ... auguration

Inauguration of President Jackson
Quote:
As he had entered, Jackson left on the west front of the Capitol, for the crowd had broken the ship's cable and surged forward. He proceeded to mount a white horse and rode up Pennsylvania Avenue to the White House. While this happened people were climbing in through the windows to get into the White House.

The White House was opened to all for a post-inaugural reception and was filled by the public even before Jackson arrived on horseback. Soon afterward, Jackson left by a window or a side entrance, and proceeded to Gadsby's Hotel in Old Town Alexandria, Virginia. The crowd continued to descend into a drunken mob, only dispersed when bowls of liquor and punch were placed on the front lawn of the White House. "I never saw such a mixture," said Joseph Story, then a justice of the Supreme Court: "The reign of King Mob seemed triumphant." The White House was left a mess, including several thousand dollars worth of broken china.

The crowd at the White House was mixed. The first arrivals were the people who made up Washington society. The second crowd that showed up at the mansion was made up of Jackson supporters who were dressed in their best clothes. What happened next doesn't seem to be disputed: The White House wasn't prepared for the crowd as it pressed in through the front door and sought out Jackson, along with the food and whiskey-laced punch. Jackson found himself pressed into a situation with his back to a wall until his people were able to get him away from the crowd, and back to his hotel.


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Post Re: Trump Watch
geo wrote:
I've been listening to the joint session proceedings tonight and amazingly it seems that many Republicans who had previously gone along with Trump's madness have now reached a breaking point. In inciting a mob, Trump apparently crossed a line today. I had long given up that there was a line. Even Lindsey Graham has unequivocally endorsed Biden's and Harris' election. And Trump's twitter account has been suspended. What a crazy day!

Two weeks to go and PSfB will be gone. And President Biden will preside over a Democrat-controlled Senate and House. So, yes, I think we still have a functioning democracy!


The bellows will be pumping furiously over the next 4 years. I think we'll see a surge, like stopping antibiotics for a while.

I saw something about McConnell agreeing to the 2k per person, if we upended a law that made social media companies immune from their posters content. A few years back, I firmly agreed that they shouldn't be held accountable. They can't control how people use their platform. But now I'm thinking it might be necessary. Facebook should be held accountable to what it's users post. (I'm looking for a debate, maybe in another thread).


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Post Re: Trump Watch
^ I'm not sure that's what the social media controversy is about. I think it's more like right wingers want to post the ugliest propaganda, not be blocked, and sue over any attempts to be silenced. Sounds like fun. :roll: Need to check further.



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Post Re: Trump Watch
Interbane wrote:
A few years back, I firmly agreed that they shouldn't be held accountable. They can't control how people use their platform. But now I'm thinking it might be necessary. Facebook should be held accountable to what it's users post. (I'm looking for a debate, maybe in another thread).

I think there are two issues here. 1) Should social media companies be held responsible for what is posted on their platforms? And do social media companies even have a right to censor the speech of others?

Regarding the first question, there's a 1996 law on the books (Section 230) that provides legal immunity from liability for internet services and users for content posted on the internet. Ironically, Trump has called for this law to be revoked because he feels that he is always being attacked on social media.

Regarding the second question, social media companies do in fact try to monitor content. For example, Twitter regularly flags Trump's fact-challenged tweets and Facebook has just taken the step of banning President Trump until he leaves office. I would say that is absolutely the company's right and responsibility to take such actions. If violence happens as a result of false information or incendiary words being propagated on its social media platform, the company would be perceived as partly responsible, and its bottom line might suffer accordingly. And since these are private companies, the first amendment doesn't really come into play, does it?

What seems especially weird to me is that we have a POTUS who uses social media almost exclusively to communicate with the American people. As such, he is required to adhere to those companies' policies regarding content. This is unprecedented territory, a good example of trying to adapt to new technology where there aren't always easy answers.


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Post Re: Trump Watch
Pence won't initiate 25th amendment, not enough time for impeachment process and little chance for 2/3 of senators to agree even if there was. We're at his mercy for the next 13 days.



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Post Re: Trump Watch
DWill wrote:
Pence won't initiate 25th amendment, not enough time for impeachment process and little chance for 2/3 of senators to agree even if there was. We're at his mercy for the next 13 days.

Nancy Pelosi's threat to impeach carries more weight now that Democrats have a majority in House and Senate. I'm not sure how it would play out since Trump will likely already be gone by the time the impeachment hearings wrap up. Except that it would probably put the nail in the coffin of Trump's political career. It would be far better I think if Trump resigned.


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Post Re: Trump Watch
geo wrote:
DWill wrote:
Pence won't initiate 25th amendment, not enough time for impeachment process and little chance for 2/3 of senators to agree even if there was. We're at his mercy for the next 13 days.

Nancy Pelosi's threat to impeach carries more weight now that Democrats have a majority in House and Senate. I'm not sure how it would play out since Trump will likely already be gone by the time the impeachment hearings wrap up. Except that it would probably put the nail in the coffin of Trump's political career. It would be far better I think if Trump resigned.

I don't want to see Trump pardoned, which would happen if he resigned. Trump wouldn't resign without an understanding from Pence that pardon goes along with it. He's more likely now to stay, I think, and that makes it important for the House to impeach on Monday. Then Trump might be constrained from continuing his crazed behavior, knowing there could be a possibility of conviction by the Senate--even after Biden's sworn in.



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Post Re: Trump Watch
Impeachment may feel like a waste of time and energy at this point, however during that process Congress has the authority to disqualify Trump from future office. That must happen! If Trump resigns, is removed by the 25th Amendment, or is pardoned, he could run again. We cannot bank on Trump being unelectable in 2024, that must be precluded. Impeach, Disqualify, and Convict!

So Trump is out 1/20/2021 for sure. But wait! As I said when introducing the Jan 6 vote counting scenario - there is always another scam! The next thing to prepare for is Sunday January 17. Right wingers are planning armed protests in all 50 state capitols. See poster below. Will this peter out is it the beginning of something long forewarned yet unimaginable?

And of course there are threats on inauguration three days later.

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Post Re: Trump Watch
I'm wrong about Democrats having majority in the Senate. The two newest Senators from Georgia will be sworn in later this month.

And besides, the Senate needs two-thirds majority to remove a president from office. So likely we'd have the same result as the last time Trump was impeached.

While we're waiting for another insurrection, on Biden's inauguration date perhaps, it will be interesting to see if Trump pardons any of the insurrectionists who are being charged. It wouldn't surprise me at all.


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Post Re: Trump Watch
There is nothing in the constitution that says a president can or cannot be impeached after leaving office. It's never been challenged in court and until it is, we don't know how it will shake out. There is the belief that Congress can impeach a former present to prevent him from holding office again. But where do we draw the line? Idiots like Matt Gaetz want to impeach Obama. He said we can impeach a former president but there is nothing in the Constitution that backs him but also nothing that says he's wrong either. So, a time limit would have to be imposed. Say that a president can be impeached within 2 weeks of leaving office or a month. Going back and impeaching a president who left office years ago and is not seeking to run again or, as in Obama's case, cannot run again seems a time-waster but we'll need to have a provision for it so that morons like Gaetz don't try to abuse it.



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Post Re: Trump Watch
DWill wrote:
Trump did a lot worse with white men than in 2016, but several percentage points better with women and minorities, according to The Guardian. That doesn't mean racial grudges didn't motivate many of his voters, but of course it rules out racism for his minority voters. There seems to be wide liking for the "No bullshit!" vibe they get from Trump. He's destructive, and that's not a bad rap for his admirers. If Washington politicians represent for them the swamp, they'll like the guy who treats government with absolute contempt. White resentment is a big part, yes, but it appears that other groups participate in the resentment, too, and have things in common with whites.


Some whites turned away from Trump because he was trying to do away with their social security and healthcare insurance. Some suspected he was playing the race angle to take white people's minds off the sleight-of-hand he was pulling. As for black support, it's somewhat of a myth that blacks hate Trump. To many young blacks, Trump has ALWAYS represented hope to them in the sad, pathetic Tony Montana way. Trump touted this "lift yourself up from your bootstraps" idea of success rather than more welfare and that attracted blacks who didn't like being perceived as a bunch of pathetic welfare cases. That Trump had a bevy of famous rappers like 50 Cent, Lil Wayne, Kanye and the like stumping for him played a role (at least Snoop had enough sense to hate him). It was a macho thing just like it is among whites--real men like Trump and wussy men like Biden.

But if you take the racist appeal of Trump away, his support among whites utterly plummets. Both the whites and blacks that love Trump are, to me, stupid. Trump was born rich, he never lifted himself up by his bootstraps. He discriminated against blacks in his real estate but they're going to trust Trump to provide decent housing for them? He called for the lynching of the Central Park 5 even after they were proven innocent and blacks think Trump is about law and order and will make their communities safer? Does a great deal-maker call an Iranian bigwig to the bargaining table and then have him assassinated as he steps out of his limo??? Did these average blacks not understand that rappers supported him because they are rich and Trump made them promises that will NEVER help the average black?? But Trump has always had a mysteriously large black male following.



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Post Re: Trump Watch
It wouldn't be a hard civics lesson to teach kids, looking at the Capitol riot: Lies have consequences.



Fri Jan 15, 2021 8:01 pm
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Post Re: Trump Watch
DB Roy wrote:
As for black support, it's somewhat of a myth that blacks hate Trump. To many young blacks, Trump has ALWAYS represented hope to them in the sad, pathetic Tony Montana way.
... But Trump has always had a mysteriously large black male following.

Here's a fact check. Although Trump's vote increased among blacks slightly over 2016, they were still overwhelmingly against him in 2020. Disclaimer: too early to have extremely accurate results on the 2020 election.
Quote:
Black voters steer America toward moral clarity in presidential race
African American voters were a critical demographic that helped determine the final outcome of the 2020 presidential election.

About 87% of Black voters nationwide chose Biden over Trump, according to preliminary national exit polling. Those early exit polls show that 19% of Black men voted for Trump, as did 9% of Black women.

An Associated Press VoteCast survey showed overall larger Black support for Biden — 90%. According to the AP survey, 12% of Black men voted for Trump, while only 6% of Black women supported him.

11/12/2020
https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/ ... 222692002/



Sat Jan 16, 2021 7:35 am
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