When you are willing to set aside the truth for the sake of power, then you have repudiated democracy. Treating everyone equally, and giving everyone their rights, means you follow the facts where they lead and everyone has a chance to be weighed by the evidence. We all learned that in "To Kill a Mockingbird," if it wasn't clear before that.

My wife first ran into it in Ecuador, when the leftists were demonstrating for democracy. Except ti turned out they weren't. She was at the University, and got a chance to talk to some of the students, and ask her naive American questions. It turns out they were not for whatever the voters wanted, they were for having themselves in power. No doubt there was some worthy end that justified the means. Justice, a chance for ordinary people to live in freedom instead of accepting whatever the people at the top imposed, an end to the ravages of poverty, worthy ends all. But they could not accept the idea that these things would happen if you just let the people decide. They knew that it would only happen if they had the power.

The good people of the deep South acted that way in the days of segregation. The facts of a case did not matter if a dark-skinned truth faced a light-skinned lie. Power mattered. No jury would convict a white man of killing a black man. No matter what the evidence said.

The police have been following this rule for a long time, probably as long as there were police. Sure, some of it is just power abusing others, but these days there is a vision of chaos in society, and police power as the only restraint on that chaos. Police officers know (except sometimes they forget) that police impunity is critical to maintaining that wall against the chaos of all against all. So if the facts aren't pointing in the right direction, make up some new facts.

Trump's tribe is acting that way now. If the truth is inconvenient for the power of the tribe, then alternate reality is called for. Whether it is a question of finding someone to blame for all this g--d--- trouble ("the China virus") or of hanging on to the guns that are the only defense against government trying to take away the power of the tribe ("your Second Amendment will be history,") or of losing the refuge from the problems of the city, problems that everyone knows directly trace to the unspeakable evil of slavery ("your beautiful suburbs will be ruined,") alternate reality is better than facing inconvenient truth.

We see the paranoid flight from reality and credibility every week on BT. I have to believe that much more than the preservation of privilege is involved. I think it is the threat to identity that has pushed things so far in that direction. The values that people organize their life around, the sense of who is us and can be trusted, and who is some kind of threat instead, those values are telling them that democracy is just giving the wrong verdict and the facts need to be set right, for the sake of civilization (as Tucker Carlson puts it). So that's the choice - do you want truth, or do you want civilization?

In a couple of months our election will choose. No question that Trump's base prefers alternate reality. They dress it up in the words of denial, but every time they have to choose between facts and power for the Republican party, they take the power. The real question is what will happen in the minds of swing voters, who are not so sure that civilization is threatened by what Trump calls "fake news", or that they prefer another four years of denial, corruption and non-stop aggressive lies to letting democracy and facts determine policy. The question is not whether Democrats will speak up for heartland values - the party went out of its way to choose someone whose record is on the traditionalist side of the liberal spectrum. The question is whether the paranoid vision of poverty as a direct threat to them will win out over their willingness to give rights to others, too.

In that time, the unemployment rate will rise again. The signs are too strong to ignore - bankruptcies, evictions, the tide of consumer demand turning downward again. It will not be a huge increase like 2008-9 (certainly not like March and April) since some forces are pushing the economy upward. But it will happen, and desperation will increase with it. And I think the election may very much hinge on whether the desperation creates more violence among the frustrated marginal workers who are laid off and kicked out of their homes, or more wake-up call to those who are watching denialism blow up common sense.

Pretty horrible that the choice may be between Democrats grimly saying "I told you so" about more unemployment and Republicans grimly saying "I told you so" about more violence.

it's overly simplistic to blame all the violence on the left.

Right, but the left, like Ted Wheeler sure are making it easy for these thugs to do their thing.

And on what planet would these violent thugs vote for anyone on the right? Highly likely they would indeed vote left.


Pathetic how in general the left never holds itself accountable for anything gone bad in Democratic controlled regions.
PATHETIC

Abolish the two party system.

Start with the Democratic party who's internal corruption is totally out of hand and who's children are now the Frankenstein monster that will eat them first.

Anyone still supporting the Democratics in any way is a delusional dinosaur still living in a bygone era

Start with the Democratic party who's internal corruption is totally out of hand

I'm sure there's corruption, but it's massively blown out of proportion by Russian propogandists.

If you want to see corruption, look at Trump. He's racked up over 3,000 conflicts of interest during his presidency. Foreign governments have held private events at his properties over a dozen times. Private interests, cabinet members, and congress members have all held events at his properties. He's never divested himself of interest in those properties either, so he's making millions. All the while refusing to provide his tax returns to the public, the first time in half a century for a president. And we both know he's hiding some shady stuff.

Some of his closest advisers have become convicted felons since the start of his campaign. His family members are part of his cabinet. His businesses are expanding overseas in lockstep with favors he provides to foreign governments and officials.

The list goes on and on. The molehill of democratic corruption has nothing on Trump's mountain.

When you rig the primaries that's enough.

When you push forward a senior with clear indications of cognitive decline it's enough

When your Speaker responds to the question of lawless rioting by saying " people will do what they do" and not come close to denouncing it, it's enough.

When you push Russian conspiracy theories for months and months without clear and convincing evidence, it's enough.

And when you get otherwise sane people to buy your garbage about conspiracy theories, it's more than enough.

I'd prefer to see a longer time sample. Did he continue to have this problem or did he right himself?

Please try for more symmetry in assessing the candidates' and parties' denunciation of violence. Don't we need to see our president forcefully damning the right for its violence and agitation? He's had almost 4 years to do that. Cheering on the militia group heading to Portland as great patriots?

ant wrote:And on what planet would these violent thugs vote for anyone on the right? Highly likely they would indeed vote left.

Arsonists and looters in todays USA clearly have Social Darwinist tendencies, not unlike todays Libertarians.

Today’s Libertarian is a Social Darwinist and many of them cloak themselves in mundane ideas of being ‘independents ’, Thugs are independents .
It stands to reason that looters, arsonists, libertarians, neo-conservatives all have Social Darwinism as a bonding principle.
The planet Earth is of course the planet these violent Social Darwinist thugs will be voting on. In particular they will be voting in America and the chances are that they will be voting for PSfB. That is if as I said “they actually vote’.

Revolution, abolishing a political party or even parties, That is not being an ‘independent’ , That’s a tyranny, is that what is wanted?, I would fight hard against that wouldn’t you?.

All against all is that what is wanted?. PSfB and his little thug the Kenosha gun-toter, it seems that is what they thought they might want, how has that worked out?. I expressed before that there is an attitude that says ‘leave a few of them laying around and this bullshit will stop’. Mark my words because that sentiment is in the brains of enough right wingers that theirs is the greater threat. It’s foolish to think otherwise.

But old Joe, he’s the threat...the bullshit gets thicker and thicker.

PSfB is/has broken America, he is figuratively the straw that cracked this countries back.

ant wrote:When you rig the primaries that's enough.

It’s ironic that you claim Russian meddling is a conspiracy theory(it’s not), then go on to spout an actual conspiracy theory yourself. If you were right that the primaries were rigged, it would be very serious, and very corrupt. But it simply didn’t happen. You’re spouting lies that come straight from the mouth of Trump. Fake news. Show evidence.

When you push forward a senior with clear indications of cognitive decline it's enough

That’s what you consider corruption? Explain.

When your Speaker responds to the question of lawless rioting by saying " people will do what they do" and not come close to denouncing it, it's enough.

Are you implying that her comment is "enough” to be labeled as corruption? A cherry picked comment?!?

The Democrats have and continue to condemn the violence. Stop spreading fake news.

Meanwhile, Trump praised the 17 year old that knowingly ventured into a protest site with a loaded gun. On what planet do your comments make sense in light of this?

When you push Russian conspiracy theories for months and months without clear and convincing evidence, it's enough.

There’s more than enough evidence. Trump campaign staffers meeting with Russian diplomats days before Russians hacked the DNC servers, meanwhile Trump calls on Russia to investigate missing emails. Then some staffers are convicted and sent to prison for lying to the FBI about Russian collusion. And what do you know, Trump commutes one of their prison sentences.

This is a necker cube. It’s actual corruption that you’re labeling as a conspiracy theory.

Here’s a link to the report detailing Trump’s corruption, released 2 weeks ago: https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/18/politics ... index.html

And when you get otherwise sane people to buy your garbage about conspiracy theories, it's more than enough.

Look in the mirror.

Again, Trump's corruption is a mountain compared to the molehill of Democrats.

Well, Trump did something absolutely right, and I am happy to mention it. By having the CDC continue the moratorium on evictions, he not only prevented thousands of Covid deaths, but he bought time for a compromise to use Federal money to stave off financial ruin for tens or hundreds of thousands.

He may have seen it as just political maneuvering. I don't care. It may be how he thinks populism is supposed to work. If so, maybe he will get the health care bug next. Or start doing something for schools and state government budgets.

Today we learned that a report on the intelligence finding of Russian interference in this election, 2020, was withdrawn. Even though the intel community has "high confidence" that Russian trolls are spreading disinformation about Biden's health, including mental health, the report is not to be published. Why? "It was poorly written." (Insufficiently on message, one presumes). And yet low confidence results about radical agitators in Portland were published.

Does this pattern disturb you as much as it disturbs me? Anybody remember those Weapons of Mass Destruction that Saddam Hussein was threatening us with?