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Coronavirus 
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Post Re: Coronavirus
ant wrote:
Your comment to my reply had an obnoxious condescending tone to it.
That is why I spoon fed you sarcasm, Robert. Learn to be self aware of the pompous tone you carry with certain people. Other than that, please share your "oblique" interpretation of The Plague when you've finished reading it. If you need help, let me know. Thanks
This reply is pure pompous projection on your part ant, mixed with stupidity. You started off with the obnoxious condescension, in line with your usual aggressive manner of conversation, by claiming that an entirely metaphorical and unstated speculative interpretation is the main theme of The Plague. Of course it has echoes of the Nazi occupation of France since it was such a major part of Camus' historical context when the book was published, but your claim that the Nazi metaphor is "the only interpretation" is just stupid, and serves to deflect readers who would benefit from discussing the main theme of the book, the existential psychology of plague.

Yours is the "oblique" interpretation, as I said in my first reply. My interpretation is clear and direct and simple, that the book is about dealing with an epidemic. And no, I do not need "help" from you. I already have enough stupid irritation in my life.


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Last edited by Robert Tulip on Thu Aug 06, 2020 8:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Thu Aug 06, 2020 8:28 pm
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Post Re: Coronavirus
geo wrote:
ant wrote:
. . .
Hence, rushed science is not very good or reliable science.

My takeaway as well. But I don't see anyone actually ideologically opposed to hydroxychloriquine as treatment for COVID, only those who are praising it as a treatment before it has been shown to be safe and effective. Trump draws a lot of criticism precisely because he is clearly scientifically illiterate and yet too stupid to know that.

:hmm:




Trump could cure cancer and solve global famine and there would be people who would criticize him for doing it.

There is something inherently wrong with bandwagons and Trump Derangement Syndrome is by far the biggest bandwagon in modern day history.

Group-think does not allow for objectivity.
I am not wired for bandwagon riding.
I am the most objective person on BT within the context of the current political climate.

I think Chris is also closer to objectivity than any of you, but he has chosen to steer clear of the subject.



Last edited by ant on Thu Aug 06, 2020 9:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Thu Aug 06, 2020 9:51 pm
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Post Re: Coronavirus
Robert wrote:

Quote:
Yours is the "oblique" interpretation, as I said in my first reply.


I have interpreted nothing. As i clearly stated, the philosopher Robert Solomon shared thoughts on the comparison.
And since the novel was written within the context of Nazism it is indeed an interesting take, but one that you are obviously too self involved to investigate.


So your accusation the obliqueness of said interpretation is mine is a bald-faced lie for all to see.


Shame on you for resorting to such ghetto rhetoric.

Good evening to you, sir.



Last edited by ant on Thu Aug 06, 2020 10:07 pm, edited 2 times in total.



Thu Aug 06, 2020 9:57 pm
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Post Re: Coronavirus
ant wrote:
I have interpreted nothing.
Once again, you show yourself incapable of reading the plain meaning of your own words, let alone what anyone else might say. You said the Nazi metaphor is "the only interpretation" of The Plague. That is plainly an interpretation on your part.
ant wrote:
[The Nazi metaphor] is indeed an interesting take
I agree, but far from "the only interpretation". In the context of a thread on the Coronavirus, the Nazi metaphor is not relevant, and is in fact a derail by you. My interest in how Camus' ideas are relevant to the Coronavirus is entirely on topic.
ant wrote:
, but one that you are obviously too self involved to investigate.
More ignorant garbage from ant. I am perfectly happy to investigate the Nazi metaphor in context, as shown by my inclusion of the link to the introduction by Tony Judt which explores exactly that question. But the more important question here, derailed by this Nazi sideshow introduced by ant, is how this great novel about an epidemic is relevant to our situation today.
ant wrote:
So your accusation the obliqueness of said interpretation is mine is a bald-faced lie for all to see.
The obliqueness of the Nazi metaphor that you introduced to the thread is seen in the fact that nowhere in the whole book does Camus mention Nazis or even the Second World War. Furthermore, main themes of the book such as the popular denial of the epidemic and the difficulties faced by the doctor in treating highly infectious patients bear little relation to the Nazi occupation. The book is about an epidemic. Yes it is set in the 1940s in Algeria, but the war does not figure at all. So you bringing the war into the discussion is oblique, which in case you didn't know means indirect. Far from a lie by me, this is stupidity by you.
ant wrote:
Shame on you for resorting to such ghetto rhetoric. Good evening to you, sir.
Not sure how a discussion of metaphor in a 1940s French novel that won its author the Nobel Prize for Literature qualifies as shameful "ghetto rhetoric", but whatever you say. Epic Godwin Fail.


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Thu Aug 06, 2020 10:56 pm
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Post Re: Coronavirus
When I said " only" it was meant as sarcasm, Robert.

And you took that sarcasm and made it a strawman.

See how silly you look now?



Fri Aug 07, 2020 12:35 am
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Post Re: Coronavirus
ant wrote:
When I said " only" it was meant as sarcasm, Robert.

And you took that sarcasm and made it a strawman.

See how silly you look now?

Well done Mr Trump

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ ... -sarcastic


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Fri Aug 07, 2020 1:19 am
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Post Re: Coronavirus
Interbane wrote:
Dwill wrote:
My first question about the article presented by the anti-vaccine organization Children's Health Defense was, who are the authors?


It's a quack site for quackerjacks like KS.

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/children ... h-defense/

https://www.acsh.org/news/2020/04/01/an ... racy-14681

Quackerjack wrote:
What, no Chatty Cathies? No name-calling? You guys aren't living down to your reputation.


We don't name call. :spam:

I'd like to look more closely at the data manipulation in the Children's Health Defense "paper" that KS believes is such a slam dunk. The paper's main claim is that more like 15,000 U.S.deaths can be attributed to covid-19, not over 150,000. The claims are not easy for me to untangle, but the basis is that CHD ignores the fact of excess deaths during the period that the rest of world calls the pandemic. You can find information on excess deaths in dozens of places. The "nothing to see here" approach of the CHD tries to prove that pneumonia deaths are greater than covid in all population segments. So, why is everyone reacting with such panic to a covid epidemic but not to a pneumonia epidemic? A question for the CHD to answer would be, why then have pneumonia deaths risen so sharply? Why have they accounted for so many of the excess deaths? But The CHD doesn't address that. They want to confuse the issue by claiming that pneumonia is separate from covid-19, when in fact covid-19 typically brings on pneumonia--but not the same pneumonia that we can vaccinate against.

The paper tells us that the gross overcount in covid deaths is all due to CDC guidance released last April, which has resulted in other causes of death to be termed covid deaths. What practice are other countries using? If not CDC's, are their lower counts then not comparable to ours? Would they be much higher if they conformed to CDC? That is unlikely because the associated burdens of the disease are also lower in countries with lower deaths per 100,000--the stress on ICUs, mortuaries, and medical supplies. CDC practice has not created an illusion of a serious viral disease problem in the U.S. The problem is real.

When almost every credible source you go to judges that covid-19 deaths are probably underreported, the CHD claim that covid deaths are really 90% fewer than the numbers we're going by faces long odds. The argument they make in the paper trying to prove that doesn't cut it. They are looking down the road at the vaccine for covid-19 and thinking the best way to lobby against vaccination is to deny the existence of the pandemic.



Last edited by DWill on Fri Aug 07, 2020 12:11 pm, edited 2 times in total.



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Fri Aug 07, 2020 6:40 am
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Post Re: Coronavirus
Robert Tulip wrote:
ant wrote:
When I said " only" it was meant as sarcasm, Robert.

And you took that sarcasm and made it a strawman.

See how silly you look now?

Well done Mr Trump

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ ... -sarcastic



Oh, stop, Robert.
Donald Trump did not invent sarcasm, nor should you blame him for mine.



Fri Aug 07, 2020 12:06 pm
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Post Re: Coronavirus
Quote:
Trump could cure cancer and solve global famine and there would be people who would criticize him for doing it.


I'd worship him eternally. What kind of miracle would that be! I mean, he has the mental capacity of a 4th grader. Imagine if such an imbecile managed to cure cancer. Surely a sign from God.


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Post Re: Coronavirus
Interbane wrote:
Quote:
Trump could cure cancer and solve global famine and there would be people who would criticize him for doing it.


I'd worship him eternally. What kind of miracle would that be! I mean, he has the mental capacity of a 4th grader. Imagine if such an imbecile managed to cure cancer. Surely a sign from God.



I don't think you'd have the time with all that self worshiping on your daily agenda



Fri Aug 07, 2020 12:36 pm
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Post Re: Coronavirus
ant wrote:
Trump could cure cancer and solve global famine and there would be people who would criticize him for doing it.


If Trump cured cancer and solved global famine, it would be completely uncharacteristic of the kind of person we've come to know the last four years. But, hey, if he did accomplish these things, many of us would certainly have to reformulate our opinions of him.

ant wrote:
I am not wired for bandwagon riding.
I am the most objective person on BT within the context of the current political climate.


I don't see it myself. But I'm rather curious, what objective criteria do you use to come to this self-evaluation?


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Fri Aug 07, 2020 1:40 pm
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Post Re: Coronavirus
ant wrote:
Oh, stop, Robert.
Donald Trump did not invent sarcasm, nor should you blame him for mine.


This is interesting as an example of debating process.

You come here to spew baseless right wing propaganda, so I have no reason to accept your insults. Now you are claiming to be using sarcasm, and calling me stupid for failing to see it, when clearly you are just lying to cover up your stupidity, exactly as Trump did when he justified his moronic comments about injecting bleach to cure the virus. So I do not in the slightest accept that your claim that the Nazi reading of Camus is the only interpretation was meant sarcastically, as you had clear reason to make the comment seriously (but mistakenly), as it was personally demeaning to me, suggesting my input was ignorant. Like Trump, you had no discernible reason for sarcasm, until you found sarcasm a feeble excuse when I pointed out that your statement was false.

What I find offensive is that I hoped people would engage in a discussion of the contemporary relevance of The Plague, but you successfully deflected that by derailing the point with your initial off topic Nazi claim, followed up by your series of baseless aggressive insults.

Your false claim now that I am somehow "blaming Trump for your sarcasm" is venal, since you know full well it is a direct lie, aimed only to mislead readers, insult me and cover up your stupidity. I am pointing out that you are just following the Trump playbook of distorting facts, when your alleged sarcasm is nothing but a post hoc desperate excuse in order to deny your factual mistake. How you spin that is admirable as an example of the dark arts, but little more.


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Post Re: Coronavirus
I think I've found the stake to put through the heart of the Covid scam. I'll repeat the headline:

CDC inflates Covid deaths TEN TIMES over actual numbers
https://childrenshealthdefense.org/news ... reopening/

They say that Wuhan deaths in the U.S. will reach 300,000 by December. So, by TRUE reckoning, actual deaths will be 30,000. That's less than seasonal flu, but we don't put on masks each year for that. And they're not masks, they're muzzles, to silence you. The masks are filthy disease incubators. Throw them away. Shout down those who say you have to wear them.

It's amazing that people are still going along with the scam. Like with the "manmade climate change" scam. The core of that fearmongering campaign is "rising sea levels." But if you go to people who view the world realistically, insurance companies, they say there's no rising sea level. They've studied it because they might have to make payouts. And what they've found is subsidence. 80% of the world's population lives along coastlines...sandy soils, islands built out of landfill and dredgings. Trillions of tons of development pushing down on soft ground, so the ground is sinking. And shameless Al Gore with his gaggle of carbon credit bankers tries to make you think that you're going to drown because you exhale carbon. The climate freaks are driving children to suicide with scary lies. I'd hate to have that on me.

A video about subsidence:

Tracking California’s Sinking Coast From Space: Implications for Sea-Level Rise & Climate Fraud
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VK4UcUH ... e=youtu.be

Note how the same tactics are used by climate alarmists and Covid alarmists. Both groups want dissenters silenced, even punished by the courts for dissenting. Both want to spend infinite amounts of money on their causes. Both want control over our lives. Control freaks. Fascists.



Fri Aug 07, 2020 10:53 pm
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Post Re: Coronavirus
ant wrote:
There is something inherently wrong with bandwagons and Trump Derangement Syndrome is by far the biggest bandwagon in modern day history.

Group-think does not allow for objectivity.
I am not wired for bandwagon riding.
I am the most objective person on BT within the context of the current political climate.

I think Chris is also closer to objectivity than any of you, but he has chosen to steer clear of the subject.

There have been at least four previous "derangement syndromes," so to claim that something unprecedented is happening with TDS is far-fetched. First there were "Clinton Crazies" (Bill), then Bush Derangement Syndrome, Obama Derangement Syndrome, and Clinton Derangement Syndrome (Hillary). No doubt Biden will get his if elected.

Just to say, ant, you come across to me as quite partisan. Have you ever shared with us global denunciation of Republicans? I can't recall it. But your drumbeat against Democrats--all Democrats--is constant. The rest of us don't vilify Republicans the way you do Democrats. You claim not to back Donald Trump based on not voting for him in '16, but your current neutrality isn't convincing and you should just own your preference for him. You make only the mildest of criticisms of him, while you pillory Biden for every, relatively little, thing.

Whenever I hear someone claim to be the most objective, I go on alert.



Sat Aug 08, 2020 6:13 am
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Post Re: Coronavirus
Is it "Trump-derangement-syndrome" or a a natural, rational response to a president, who regularly violates many of our social and democratic norms, who regularly and pathologically makes false statements, who reveals his own hypocrisy and narcissism and small-mindedness at every turn, whose history of corruption and incompetence is in plain view? The guy who ran a sham university and ultimately had to pay a $25 million settlement, the man who tried to blackmail the Ukranian president into finding dirt on his political opponent, the guy who unabashedly attacks and obstructs law enforcement and slanders witnesses? And whose response to the Coronoavirus pandemic has been criminally negligent and incompetent?


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