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Coronavirus 
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Post Re: Coronavirus
I've read The Plague 3x.

The late Robert Solomon suggests The Plague is a philosophical consideration of the evils perpetrated by Nazi Germany in 1943-1945



Sun Aug 02, 2020 11:07 am
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Post Re: Coronavirus
Geo wrote:

Quote:
I would guess that KS doesn't know what truth is. The very concept of it is beyond his comprehension


As always, the truth always lies somewhere in the middle. We, more often than not, cannot comprehend the totality of any given truth.


But speaking of truth versus, say, conspiracy, how may of you are old enough to remember the fringe conspiracy theory that numerous politicians and celebrities were involved in some mysterious underground pedophilia ring?


And now we have Mr. Epstein (RIP) and Ghislaine Maxwell, who has pedo-related dirt on people like Prince Andrew and Bill Clinton?

And what of Bill Clinton? We have first hand testimony, flight records, and even photographs of good ol Democratic Bill hanging all over under-aged girls.
Why isn't this blockbuster bit of news getting more journalistic coverage?

Journalism is nothing more than political activism.



Sun Aug 02, 2020 11:16 am
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Post Re: Coronavirus
ant wrote:
And now we have Mr. Epstein (RIP) and Ghislaine Maxwell, who has pedo-related dirt on people like Prince Andrew and Bill Clinton?

And what of Bill Clinton? We have first hand testimony, flight records, and even photographs of good ol Democratic Bill hanging all over under-aged girls.
Why isn't this blockbuster bit of news getting more journalistic coverage?

Journalism is nothing more than political activism.


And why are you leaving out Donald Trump? I suspect the journalists have been holding back because libel laws are not kind to innuendo. If you are going to tar someone, better make it stick.



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Sun Aug 02, 2020 12:30 pm
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Post Re: Coronavirus
Hahaha!

Since when did journalism start being sensitive to libel and or slander?

You a lawyer now?

That's truly hilarious



Sun Aug 02, 2020 12:36 pm
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Post Re: Coronavirus
ant wrote:
Since when did journalism start being sensitive to libel and or slander?

You a lawyer now?

I studied journalism law in college. I have continued to follow the developments in the law, which have not been a lot. The definitive ruling is still "New York Times v Sullivan" from the 60s, in which the SCOTUS ruled that the usual burden, in which the publication is not required to pay damages if they can prove what they printed is true, does not apply to stories about public figures. Instead they have to be shown by a plaintiff to have exhibited a "reckless disregard for truth". On a private-ish matter like participation in a sex ring, the publication would have to have pretty solid evidence, or the cover provided by an actual grand jury indictment, before that Sullivan immunity kicked in. Some publications are willing to go with such a story if they have public accusations or two independent corroborating witnesses, but they are playing with fire if they do.

You can get the general idea from reviewing the Eliot Spitzer case. The media have no compunctions about printing such things, except if the facts are unclear.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eliot_Spi ... on_scandal

Accusations that Trump raped an underage girl in an Epstein party, and in general was in compromising situations with Epstein, were around at least as early as 2016. They remain only accusations, with no indictments leveled.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/worl ... 54111.html
https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/08 ... trump.html



Sun Aug 02, 2020 1:06 pm
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Post Re: Coronavirus
Regarding Clinton - there is significant evidence in the form of testimony on documentation. So there is that.

Regarding "window smashing man" - to my knowledge, no significant evidence exists to implicate him or establish motive. A "tipster" is not anything significant until material evidence can be discovered.


What's important to note here within the context of the current civil unrest is that even if Window Man's motive was to create public racial discord that in itself certainly is not a "catch all" for the totality of the unrest.

i don't know why you insist on softly promoting the possibility that white supremacists should in some way be held accountable for, um, what exactly?
Everything? That one incident in question?

Just say it instead of providing support to it.



Last edited by ant on Sun Aug 02, 2020 1:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Sun Aug 02, 2020 1:31 pm
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Post Re: Coronavirus
ant wrote:
Regarding Clinton - there is significant evidence in the form of testimony on documentation. So there is that.

There is definitely testimony against Trump. The accuser who withdrew her original case, then started again, is very likely just trying to get money from Trump, but now that we know how Michael Cohen used to work, her claim that she feared for her life is not beyond belief.

ant wrote:
Regarding "window smashing man" - to my knowledge, no significant evidence exists to implicate him or establish motive. A "tipster" is not anything significant until material evidence can be discovered.
The police are supposed to have probable cause before fingering someone. It may turn out the tipster is all they are going on, but I doubt it. In this overheated atmosphere there is room to doubt the police, but they have a lot at stake if they blow their credibility.

ant wrote:
What's important to note here within the context of the current civil unrest is that even if Window Man's motive was to create public racial discord that in itself certainly is not a "catch all" for the totality of the unrest.
Well, it is certainly true that a lot of others have participated, and it is not credible that they would all be false flag right-wingers, or even mostly. I definitely wish the protesters had been willing to close up and go home at curfew every evening, and since they did not, the protests bear the bulk of the responsibility.

Even given that background, I may have overstated the impact of Umbrella Man's actions. "Early in the process" is all I have to go on. Still, in a movement of such size the presence of even a few "agent provocateurs", whether they be rogues or Boogaloo Boys, or maybe even paid agents, raises questions about the narratives presented by the Fox News crowd.

ant wrote:
i don't know why you insist on softly promoting the possibility that white supremacists should in some way be held accountable for, um, what exactly?
Everything? That one incident in question?
This from you? Not too long ago you were pushing the line that liberals in general should be blamed for all the property damage by looters. Does that include Umbrella Man? We now have testimony that Trump launched tear gas against peaceful protesters so he could hold up a Bible in front of a church. If he is going to lump all of the response to Floyd's killing together, then it makes a tremendous difference that some of the damage is done by far right agents. It's a question of what his lumping means.



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Sun Aug 02, 2020 4:54 pm
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Post Re: Coronavirus
I m sure none here will ever understand your complex religious convictions, particularly the resident atheists , some of which believe that religion is the root of all evil in the world, but why can't you at least denounce the bible bonfire party last night in Portland?

Who was responsible for that, right wing extremists?



Sun Aug 02, 2020 5:54 pm
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Post Re: Coronavirus
Sick of the Democratic double standards and blind eye to the protests.

And this idiot does opine about a lot of social activities but doesn't have the balls to say the protests are obviously antithetical to social distancing measures.

[youtube]https://youtu.be/oSCSWVrcCtA[/youtube]



Sun Aug 02, 2020 11:55 pm
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Post Re: Coronavirus
Why aren't any of you discussing this?

https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/2020060 ... uine-study


Quote:
Lancet has apologized to readers after retracting a study that said the anti-malarial drug hydroxychloroquine did not help to curb COVID-19 and might cause death in patients.

The study was withdrawn because the company that provided data would not provide full access to the information for a third-party peer review, saying to do so would violate client agreements and confidentiality requirements, The Lancet said in a statement.

“Based on this development, we can no longer vouch for the veracity of the primary data sources. Due to this unfortunate development, the authors request that the paper be retracted,” The Lancet said in a statement.


This is the same study that was used to discredit studies that have concluded HydroxyC in conjunction with other meds has been an used effectively in treating some C19 patients:

Quote:
The World Health Organization temporarily halted clinical trials using hydroxychloroquine after the Lancet article was originally published, a move that reflected the influence a single study can have in the fast-changing area of coronavirus research.


https://www.insidehighered.com/news/202 ... s-problems

Instead ya'll are busy congratulating Interbane for his unsubstantiated " fact checking"



Last edited by ant on Mon Aug 03, 2020 12:53 am, edited 1 time in total.



Mon Aug 03, 2020 12:13 am
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Post Re: Coronavirus
ant wrote:
I've read The Plague 3x.

The late Robert Solomon suggests The Plague is a philosophical consideration of the evils perpetrated by Nazi Germany in 1943-1945


That is just one rather oblique and metaphorical interpretation of a multi-faceted book. The psychology of dealing with a plague is quite different from the psychology of dealing with Nazi invaders.


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Mon Aug 03, 2020 5:40 am
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Post Re: Coronavirus
Robert Tulip wrote:
ant wrote:
I've read The Plague 3x.

The late Robert Solomon suggests The Plague is a philosophical consideration of the evils perpetrated by Nazi Germany in 1943-1945


That is just one rather oblique and metaphorical interpretation of a multi-faceted book. The psychology of dealing with a plague is quite different from the psychology of dealing with Nazi invaders.



Oh, it`s "just one" interpretation of The Plague?

I thought it was the only interpretation of it.

Thanks for enlightening me.

I just can't wait for you to start claiming that The Plague is really about astrology.



Last edited by ant on Mon Aug 03, 2020 10:09 am, edited 1 time in total.



Mon Aug 03, 2020 10:10 am
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Post Re: Coronavirus
ant wrote:
Geo wrote:

Quote:
I would guess that KS doesn't know what truth is. The very concept of it is beyond his comprehension


As always, the truth always lies somewhere in the middle. We, more often than not, cannot comprehend the totality of any given truth.

This veers ever so perilously to false equivalency. The truth does not "fall in the middle" if one side is KindaSkolarly, who has demonstrated time and again that he is heavily vested in conspiracy theories and false beliefs. Some newspapers make this mistake, presenting both sides of the story, as if they are equal. They frequently are not.


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Mon Aug 03, 2020 11:24 am
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Post Re: Coronavirus
ant wrote:
Why aren't any of you discussing this?

https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/2020060 ... uine-study


Quote:
Lancet has apologized to readers after retracting a study that said the anti-malarial drug hydroxychloroquine did not help to curb COVID-19 and might cause death in patients."

What's to talk about? Are you suggesting there's a coverup or conspiracy or something like that?

The study was challenged soon after publication, and then withdrawn when its authors said they were unable to complete an independent audit of the data underpinning their analysis.

The Lancet had no choice but to retract the study.

It doesn't change the bottom line. There's still no compelling evidence that hydroxychloroquine is an effective treatment against coronavirus. In particular, studies by Oxford University and The New England Journal of Medicine have shown no clinical benefit from hydroxychloroquine. Although as previously mentioned other studies are still being conducted.

https://www.painnewsnetwork.org/stories ... 20patients.


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Mon Aug 03, 2020 11:41 am
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Post Re: Coronavirus
ant wrote:
Why aren't any of you discussing this?

https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/2020060 ... uine-study


Because it’s 2 months old. In Covid years, that’s 2 decades ago. Let's discuss this instead.

Quote:
Not endorsing what KOS has said, but technically speaking, no he didn't do great fact checking because he didn't site sources to back HIS claims as well.


I’m no true scotsman I guess. Why would I need to cite sources? Of the 3 main reasons for citing, I don’t need to avoid plagiarism, don’t need to give credit to authors of studies, and don’t need to provide additional information. Only the last point has merit, but everything discussed is all over the internet. It’s public information, just google it.

Quote:
Go ahead, you and Interbane can fact check me.


About what? You link to testing issues without actually making any claims. It’s a rather spineless rebuttal. I would rather have a few paragraphs of your own opinion, without you citing any sources. It seems like all you did was some quick google searching and slap down links that you think tell a narrative, without understanding them.

Here are few points for context. I'll omit the narrative :wink: :

-Have you read about false-negative rates being much higher than 3%
-The BD Max System test is a known issue, and the FDA recommends positive results be double checked by an alternate test.
-The vantage article discusses pros and cons along a range of various antibody tests from back in April. The FDA acknowledged the need to regulate these tests to ensure accuracy.
-The webMD article on contaminated kits referred to a contaminated batch of test kits back in February, and replacements were already sent out by the end of February.


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Mon Aug 03, 2020 12:44 pm
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