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Coronavirus 
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Post Re: Coronavirus
Interbane wrote:
I wonder if there will ever be a necker-cube moment for guys like him, where they suddenly see the truth of things.

I would guess that KS doesn't know what truth is. The very concept of it is beyond his comprehension.Those who believe all information is slanted, or simply can't tell the difference between what is real and what is fake, can basically choose their own reality. The internet has made us stupid. Ironic though, as DWill says, that people blabbing about fake news are frequently the ones peddling it.

Recall a few months back, the guy who self-published a book about why evolution is bullshit. He admitted that he had never read a book about evolution in his life. But he had watched a bunch of videos on YouTube! Without a proper grounding in reality, he considered himself knowledgeable on the subject.

Either that or KS is a Russian troll, deliberately feeding false information into the maelstrom. I think there's actually a good chance of this.


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Thu Jul 30, 2020 10:25 am
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Post Re: Coronavirus
DWill wrote:
You did great with your fact-checking. Of course, most of these sources are guys in their pajamas trolling the internet. They get through to a certain group who enjoy the feeling of being cognoscenti, possessors of the real dope, the scales fallen from their eyes--that sort of thing. You have some entrepreneurial types, too, the ones who try to make a name for themselves, the brand leaders. KindaSkolarly is one of those, an intelligent guy who decided the opportunity lies in this new frontier of fake news. You're right to charge fake news on him. Trump co-opted those words by turning them on anyone who disagreed with him, but he has been one of the prominent purveyors of fake news since the beginning.

My guess about KS was QAnon. It doesn't really matter what his origin story is. We've always had a lot of crazy in the U.S.A. We just didn't have the really perfect medium for it until the 'net got up to speed.


Not endorsing what KOS has said, but technically speaking, no he didn't do great fact checking because he didn't site sources to back HIS claims as well.

I would have liked to have seen some.. He just echoed what you believe as well.

Here are some testing issues:

False Positives (how many are out there)

Quote:
The U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) alerted clinical laboratory staff and health care providers of an increased risk of a false-positive result with BD SARS-CoV-2 Reagents for the BD Max System test. In one study, the manufacturer found approximately three percent (3%) of results were false-positive results.


those 3%'ers can add up quickly.. it is not an insignificant number for many reasons.

https://www.winknews.com/2020/07/09/fda ... ax-system/

however..,

Quote:
The prevalence of Covid-19 is estimated at around 5% in the US, and at this low a level the risk of false positives becomes a major problem. If a serological test has 90% specificity, its positive predictive value will be 32.1% – meaning nearly 70% of positive results will likely be false


https://www.evaluate.com/vantage/articl ... ic-problem


Early testing kits were likely contaminated which likely inflated the numbers right out of the gate:

Quote:
The initial COVID-19 test kits created by the CDC failed because of a contaminated component, according to a review by the Department of Health and Human Services.


https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/2020062 ... ntaminated


Go ahead, you and Interbane can fact check me.

I'll wait.



Thu Jul 30, 2020 2:16 pm
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Post Re: Coronavirus
ant wrote:
Not endorsing what KOS has said, but technically speaking, no he didn't do great fact checking because he didn't site sources to back HIS claims as well.

I would have liked to have seen some. He just echoed what you believe as well.

Not endorsing KOS is the whole point. What interbane did was sufficient because it's not hard to refute someone who believes the pandemic was planned and for whom Alex Jones is a go-to. Consciousness is a good minimum qualification here. I don't know why you think I or others would have a reflexive resistance to the points you're making about testing. I'm not going to do the looking because I've never challenged any of these specific points. And from the beginning I've said that's there more to look into regarding the U.S's preparation to fight the pandemic than just Trump's handling of the crisis.



Thu Jul 30, 2020 7:16 pm
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Post Re: Coronavirus
https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/her ... 20756.html

Herman Cain dies of covid a month into his affliction. He wasn't one of my favorite people but I'm not going to gloat over it. But how many times will this have to happen before the deniers have to admit they were wrong? The disease is real and it kills people. Doesn't kill everyone. Most will survive. But it kills a great many. The chances are too high to play around. Wear a mask, wash your hands, avoid crowds, listen to the doctors and ignore Trump--best things you can do for yourself.

Instead the deniers keep coming up with garbage to keep doing what they should know is deadly wrong. Their favorite is too say that no matter what anyone dies of--the CDC and WHO will count it as a covid death in order to inflate the numbers. Does this sound like an inflated number? Herman Cain is dead because Herman Cain went to Tulsa and sat in a crowd without a mask on and caught the coronavirus--that's why Herman Cain is dead. And if you want to act that irresponsible and foolish, then you may be dead too.

So put the damn mask on and shut up.



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Thu Jul 30, 2020 7:36 pm
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Post Re: Coronavirus
ant wrote:
Not endorsing what KOS has said, but technically speaking, no he didn't do great fact checking because he didn't site sources to back HIS claims as well.

I would have liked to have seen some.. He just echoed what you believe as well.

Here are some testing issues:

False Positives (how many are out there)


If the post I made is truthful, why should I have sources? Why the hell do I care about process?

KS cites fourth-hand sources for all his content, all of which have an impenetrable chain of information. I'm not publishing a science magazine, and I don't give a fuck about sources. If you want to fact check me, then do so. Source-citing in this day-in-age, where all information is at your fingertips, is a ridiculous notion. I find KS's sources without him citing them, and I look into the sources of his sources, all without him giving me any background information. If you or KS can't do the same, then ask specifically for the sources, and I will gladly provide them. Otherwise be silent.

Quote:
those 3%'ers can add up quickly. it is not an insignificant number for many reasons.


Thankfully, due to the process of science, this issue was brought to the forefront. So that medical staff and researchers can account for it. What's the reason you mention this? Are you hoping to substantiate the fact that science is self-correcting? Are you highlighting that this issue has been recognized and corrective measures are now in place?

Make your damned point, because otherwise it seems you're proving mine.

Quote:
Go ahead, you and Interbane can fact check me.


I've debated with you, and I know you're smarter than this. Don't side with the devil.

https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-fact ... SKCN24F214


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Thu Jul 30, 2020 8:32 pm
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Post Re: Coronavirus
The doctors in the video are curing people with hydroxychloroquine + zinc + (where indicated) antibiotics. One doctor's cured over 300, with zero deaths. That's pretty impressive, but it bucks big pharma so of course the doctors have to be maligned and canceled. Most of you believe the absurdity of manmade climate change, but you're probably still pretty good at your jobs. You were probably good at them when Al Gore said you would die from global cooling then, oops, make that global warming. And now that "manmade climate change" is going to kill us in 9 years, you're probably still pretty good at your jobs. But I doubt that you've ever achieved a result of 300/0 in what you do. If the doctors who can achieve that believe in demons, then believe away.

I tend to forget that so many of you here are victims of brainwashing. You lecture me on fake news after you helped propel Russiagate for two and a half years. And you believe in dozens of different genders. And out of 173 Democratic candidates at the start of that process, you're now supporting a man with dementia. Don't you guys have even a GLIMMER of insight from time to time? You promote masks, and now Fauci is saying goggles. What's next? The colon has a mucus membrane, so will you shove a tampon up your ass if he floats that idea?

Nah, hydroxychloroquine doesn't work, but I can change the climate, Ma. And Fauci says I should ask if you got any tampons.

Where's the mask?
twitter.com/Cleetus41523782/status/1287 ... 8643412993

Dr. Lisa Koche - hydroxychloroquine works.
(She says 200mg twice a week.)
https://banned.video/watch?id=5f234c5868370e02f2a5a764

Ohio ABANDONS Its Hydroxychloroquine Ban After Public Outrage
nationalfile.com/ohio-abandons-its-hydr ... c-outrage/

Nonpharmaceutical Measures for Pandemic Influenza in Nonhealthcare Settings—Personal Protective and Environmental Measures
“We did not find evidence that surgical-type face masks are effective in reducing laboratory-confirmed influenza transmission, either when worn by infected persons (source control) or by persons in the general community to reduce their susceptibility…”
https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/5/19-0994_article

Bill Gates’ Plan to use Microneedles to Deliver COVID19 Vaccine and Embed Vaccination Status into the Skin
"The patches resemble a spiky piece of Velcro, with hundreds of tiny microneedles made of sugar.... The Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation is funding the technologies with aims to enable them in 'house-to-house' vaccine campaigns undertaken by people with 'minimal training.'"
vaccineimpact.com/2020/bill-gates-plan- ... -the-skin/

Gave him a pizza his mind
Take-out food has always been the tell-tale that the mask mandates are bogus. You can't go here and there without a mask, but you can have strangers deliver cartons of lukewarm virus medium to your door? Did the cook stand six feet away from your food? Take-out was the bone they threw you to make your quarantine more tolerable, but think it through folks. Anyway, for some reason the guy in this video made me think of you mask Nazis.
twitter.com/TPostMillennial/status/1289 ... 7637373952

The Wuhan virus kills less than seasonal flu. The world's banking elite is using the virus to drive a campaign of fear. We're now facing another round of global lockdowns. We will keep seeing them until the global financial system collapses. Half the world's population will then die from starvation. Survivors will be told to take a shot that alters DNA. If you don't take it then you will not be allowed to eat. If you take the shot, then your body will produce antibodies to some sort of SARS-like coronavirus. They're not really sure how it will work because, you know, who has time for trials? But with the high level of antibodies in your system, you will die when you encounter the wild form of the Wuhan virus. A cytokine storm will wash your brain once and for all.


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Post Re: Coronavirus
The doctor who claims to have cured the 300 would be Stella Immanuel, who also has cut out all the BS about the cause of cancer. It's sex with demons, stupid. Let's not require any evidence of her astounding success. Let's just accept the word of this highly credible professional.



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Post Re: Coronavirus
It would be great if hydroxychloriquine was shown to be a good treatment for Coronavirus. But so far the studies have been mixed. The largest study conducted so far (by Oxford University) concluded that "there is no beneficial effect of hydroxychloroquine in patients hospitalised with Covid-19" and the drug has now been pulled from the trial."

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-52937153

But if Alex Jones says it works, then it must be true! There must be a conspiracy by Big Pharma to hide the truth from the American sheeple.

And, yet, there are still over 200 trials currently underway around the world to study the drug's impact either as a prophylactic or treatment for Covid-19. That doesn't really jive with a big huge conspiracy, but people want to believe in something I guess.

https://www.bbc.com/news/51980731


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Post Re: Coronavirus
If Trump said he no longer believed in hydroxychloroquine as a cure and that the cure-all was to inject lemonade powder into your veins with a rusty needle, all these people would immediately start pushing that as the cure. I wish I was exaggerating but I'm not. They will back anything Trump says no matter how many times he changes his mind, no matter how nonsensical it is. They don't get mad at him, it doesn't bother them a bit because they have no intellectual capacity. Whatever Trump says is the truth no matter what it is.



Sat Aug 01, 2020 10:32 am
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Post Re: Coronavirus
Interbane wrote:

Quote:
If the post I made is truthful, why should I have sources? Why the hell do I care about process?



Can you respond what I posted regarding false positives and contaminated testing kits? I've noticed you've become so lazy in this bubble that you're actually self referencing as a fact source.
That's absurd.
What's worse is that some people here are actually applauding you for it.
I didn't fact check you and there's no need for me to do that here because you provided nothing on the post I am commenting on.
What I actually did was provide links to some very legit sources that have questioned that accuracy of the data we have on COVID19.


Interbane wrote:

Quote:
Over 50 studies have been done on the efficacy of Hydroxychloroquine on the current virus, and the metadata suggests it has zero benefit, and does more harm than good.



This is from May 2020:


Quote:
The results of this study demonstrate that in a strictly monitored protocol-driven in-hospital setting, treatment with hydroxychloroquine alone and hydroxychloroquine + azithromycin was associated with a significant reduction in mortality among patients hospitalized with COVID-19. In this study, among one of the largest COVID-19 hospital patient cohorts (n = 2,541) assembled in a single institution, overall in-hospital COVID-19 associated mortality was 18.1% reflecting a high prevalence of co-morbid conditions in COVID-19 patients admitted to our institution


https://www.ijidonline.com/article/S1201-9712(20)30534-8/fulltext#secsect0105


You claim over 50 studies have evidenced zero benefits.
Are you familiar with the particulars of those studies - age of patients, pre-existing conditions, stage of treatment? Have any of the "over 50" been retracted (which is often the case with a lot of published studies) or are you just throwing the number 50 out there as an attempt to overwhelm any claim that's contrary to yours?

Why should I take you word for it?

Public criticism of study published by the IJID as being " flawed" was not backed by evidence.
The study was peer reviewed. No one made any public comments about that though.


Interbane wrote:

Quote:
If you or KS can't do the same, then ask specifically for the sources, and I will gladly provide them. Otherwise be silent.


Don't want to take you completely out of context here but, okay. I am asking you now - provide "over 50 sources" that have concluded HydroxyC is of 'zero benefit" when used alone or in conjunction with other drugs for a treatment (not a CURE) for patients diagnosed with COVID19.
(the "otherwise be silent" comment I'll ignore because it is a silly thing to say to an adult. save that line for your children)

Interbane wrote:

Quote:
Thankfully, due to the process of science, this issue was brought to the forefront. So that medical staff and researchers can account for it. What's the reason you mention this? Are you hoping to substantiate the fact that science is self-correcting? Are you highlighting that this issue has been recognized and corrective measures are now in place?

Make your damned point, because otherwise it seems you're proving mine.



You bring up a good point about science being self correcting and I would not dispute that it is not. And that's precisely why I'd like you to not rely too heavily on your "over 50" studies about the efficacy of HydroxyC, which of course I'm beating you know little about the particulars of and how they might not be valid anymore.
I think you are just parroting the narrative here as it is voiced by Dr. Fauci who invalidated the Henry Ford study without saying why he disagreed with its peer reviewed legitimacy.
I understand that you need a source of authority in order to appeal to something in conversations like these. You aren't above that fallacy. Knowing of that fallacy has not done you any good though.


Interbane wrote:

Quote:
I've debated with you, and I know you're smarter than this. Don't side with the devil.


WTF is the Reuters link all about? Do you intend it as a response to mine regarding kits being contaminated?
Did you even read the link?

Your Reuters link is about some stupid conspiracy circulated about kits being infected with COVID19..
My link indicates contamination of components in the kits that resulted in flawed RESULTS.

Thanks for proving my point about how lazy you've become in your bubble.



Sat Aug 01, 2020 12:09 pm
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Post Re: Coronavirus
DWill wrote:
ant wrote:
Not endorsing what KOS has said, but technically speaking, no he didn't do great fact checking because he didn't site sources to back HIS claims as well.

I would have liked to have seen some. He just echoed what you believe as well.

Not endorsing KOS is the whole point. What interbane did was sufficient because it's not hard to refute someone who believes the pandemic was planned and for whom Alex Jones is a go-to. Consciousness is a good minimum qualification here. I don't know why you think I or others would have a reflexive resistance to the points you're making about testing. I'm not going to do the looking because I've never challenged any of these specific points. And from the beginning I've said that's there more to look into regarding the U.S's preparation to fight the pandemic than just Trump's handling of the crisis.



No, it's not sufficient. Some of Interbane's comments were broad and baseless.

I agree with Geo - the entire HydroxyC findings are a mixed bag.. At least here in the States they are.

I also believe there are doctors that have attempted to share their positive experience with the drug as a treatment but were censured for it.



Sat Aug 01, 2020 12:14 pm
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Post Re: Coronavirus
geo wrote:
Ironic though, as DWill says, that people blabbing about fake news are frequently the ones peddling it.

I wholeheartedly with you and DWill on that.



Sat Aug 01, 2020 2:23 pm
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Post Re: Coronavirus
ant wrote:
I also believe there are doctors that have attempted to share their positive experience with the drug as a treatment but were censured for it.

I checked out Dr. Lisa Koche from one of KS' links. If she was censured, it was for making false claims about vaccines. A medical doctor of all people should know that any potential treatment has to be shown to be effective in drug trials and medical literature. She's basically a quack who can only offer anecdotal evidence that hydroxychloriquine is effective with her patients. She may ultimately be proved right, but in evidence-based medicine, we rely on clinical trials. Her statements here are obviously politically motivated.


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Sat Aug 01, 2020 4:29 pm
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Post Re: Coronavirus
Not familiar with that one.

Certainly would personally be cautious dismissing all because of this one in particular.

I'd be honest about it.



Sat Aug 01, 2020 6:24 pm
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Post Re: Coronavirus
I am reading The Plague by Albert Camus. About a bubonic outbreak in the city of Oran in Algeria in the 1940s, The Plague presents many of the psychological and existential problems now seen with the Covid pandemic.

Text is free at http://www.24grammata.com/wp-content/up ... a.com_.pdf and commentary is at http://self.gutenberg.org/articles/the_plague

Quote:
The Plague (French: La Peste) is a novel by Albert Camus, published in 1947, that tells the story of a plague sweeping the Algerian city of Oran. It asks a number of questions relating to the nature of destiny and the human condition. The characters in the book, ranging from doctors to vacationers to fugitives, all help to show the effects the plague has on a populace.

The novel is believed to be based on the cholera epidemic that killed a large percentage of Oran's population in 1849 following French colonization, but the novel is placed in the 1940s.[1] Oran and its environs were struck by disease multiple times before Camus published this novel. According to a research report by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, Oran was decimated by the plague in 1556 and 1678, but outbreaks after European colonization, in 1921 (185 cases), 1931 (76 cases), and 1944 (95 cases), were very far from the scale of the epidemic described in the novel.

The Plague is considered an existentialist classic despite Camus' objection to the label.[2][3] The narrative tone is similar to Kafka's, especially in The Trial, wherein individual sentences potentially have multiple meanings, the material often pointedly resonating as stark allegory of phenomenal consciousness and the human condition. Camus included a dim-witted character misreading The Trial as a mystery novel as an oblique homage. The novel has been read as a metaphorical treatment of the French resistance to Nazi occupation during World War II.

Although Camus's approach in the book is severe, his narrator emphasizes the ideas that we ultimately have no control, and irrationality of life is inevitable. Additionally, he further illustrates the human reaction towards the "absurd"; The Plague represents how the world deals with the philosophical notion of the Absurd, a theory which Camus himself helped to define.


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