• In total there are 3 users online :: 1 registered, 0 hidden and 2 guests (based on users active over the past 60 minutes)
    Most users ever online was 616 on Thu Jan 18, 2024 7:47 pm

173 Declared Democratic Presidential Candidates

A forum dedicated to friendly and civil conversations about domestic and global politics, history, and present-day events.
Forum rules
Do not promote books in this forum. Instead, promote your books in either Authors: Tell us about your FICTION book! or Authors: Tell us about your NON-FICTION book!.

All other Community Rules apply in this and all other forums.
User avatar
DWill

1H - GOLD CONTRIBUTOR
BookTalk.org Hall of Fame
Posts: 6966
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2008 8:05 am
16
Location: Luray, Virginia
Has thanked: 2262 times
Been thanked: 2470 times

Re: 173 Declared Democratic Presidential Candidates

Unread post

KindaSkolarly wrote:My new favorite campaign statement from Joe Biden: "I'm prepared to say that I have a record of over forty years and that I'm going to beat Joe Biden."
Inconveniently for you, what Biden said was, "I'm going to be Joe Biden". If you cared about the truth, you would have listened to the comment he actually made, and then perhaps even you would not be peddling this particular lie.

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2 ... squote-bi/
User avatar
Harry Marks
Bookasaurus
Posts: 1920
Joined: Sun May 01, 2011 10:42 am
12
Location: Denver, CO
Has thanked: 2335 times
Been thanked: 1020 times
Ukraine

Re: 173 Declared Democratic Presidential Candidates

Unread post

DWill wrote:Biden served 8 years under a black president, for pity's sake, and it's that loyalty to a black man that African Americans think is worth rewarding. Biden a racist? Sorry, absurd. You will maneuver to a point where nearly everyone can be called racist, so the charge will have no meaning.
Just for the record, I agree with the academics who argue that racism, the system which identifies darker skin (etc.) with lower status, is something all of us are subject to, including people of color. Organized, institutionalized racism may be a thing of the past except in a few fevered minds of the alt-Right, but the system persists in many ways that are entirely unconscious and feel to the participant like just protecting themselves or getting what is due to them. People who cross the street to avoid a group of young black men but will stroll blithely by a group of young white men, people who attribute an outburst by a white girl in class to the individual's personality but attribute an outburst by a Chicana in class to the culture she comes from, and on and on, are perpetuating the system which excludes and marginalizes and deprives people of color.

I agree with your objection to using the term in a way that deprives it of meaning. There needs to be a term for people who buy into the system and use it to make themselves feel better by making someone else feel bad (or getting that person hurt). But it is important to recognize the "background radiation" that so far has no better term for it than racism.
ant wrote: you'd think he'd find the time to take some cultural sensitivity classes.
Shouldn't we all? And intercultural communication, while we are at it. I have to admit I don't "get" Catholicism, much less Islam, even though I have read a few books on the subject.

In the end I think part of the answer is to stay leery of call-out culture. Nearly everyone has some areas open to criticism, and it doesn't really change anything to make sure we humiliate anyone any time they cross a line into participation in bad systems. It is a good idea to criticize particular behavior, and we can't completely avoid noticing when there is a pattern of offensive and indirectly oppressive behavior. But I don't believe an anti-racist system of survival of the purest will either appeal to most Americans or get the job done.

A good start, as we are all learning, is willingness to apologize for offensive words hastily spoken.
User avatar
geo

2C - MOD & GOLD
pets endangered by possible book avalanche
Posts: 4779
Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2008 4:24 am
15
Location: NC
Has thanked: 2199 times
Been thanked: 2200 times
United States of America

Re: 173 Declared Democratic Presidential Candidates

Unread post

ant wrote:It makes me wonder how some people sleep at night knowing they support a racist that's nothing more than a more appealing racist at the end of the day.
I almost think you're pulling our leg with this faux moral outrage bullshit. I'm just not buying it. Biden isn't perfect, but one rhetorical slip doesn't make a person a racist (and neither does a 2008 photo taken with Sen. Robert Byrd). If you want a candidate who will stand for civil and human rights and move our country in a more progressive direction, Biden is a vastly better choice than Donald Trump. You should save your moral outrage to those who continue to support Donald Trump, who has demonstrated time and again that he's dramatically unfit for office.

Edit: Perhaps we should think of the 2020 election as a variation of the trolley problem. You have to make a decision: pull the lever one way and Biden is elected. Pull the lever another way and Trump is elected. There's no time for moral vacillations and useless rationalizations. The clock is ticking . . .

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trolley_problem
-Geo
Question everything
User avatar
DWill

1H - GOLD CONTRIBUTOR
BookTalk.org Hall of Fame
Posts: 6966
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2008 8:05 am
16
Location: Luray, Virginia
Has thanked: 2262 times
Been thanked: 2470 times

Re: 173 Declared Democratic Presidential Candidates

Unread post

I suspect that with him it's more a matter of asserting that liberals or Democrats have to, in order to be consistent with what they're always condemning as racist, take Biden as a racist, too. That's what's faux about his outrage. It's not really about Robert Byrd or even Joe Biden, but about nailing liberals as hypocrites. But the material he's usingto do that is very poor stuff.
KindaSkolarly

1E - BANNED
Doctorate
Posts: 512
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2017 3:53 pm
6
Location: Texas
Has thanked: 16 times
Been thanked: 104 times

Re: 173 Declared Democratic Presidential Candidates

Unread post

DWill wrote:
KindaSkolarly wrote:My new favorite campaign statement from Joe Biden: "I'm prepared to say that I have a record of over forty years and that I'm going to beat Joe Biden."
Inconveniently for you, what Biden said was, "I'm going to be Joe Biden". If you cared about the truth, you would have listened to the comment he actually made, and then perhaps even you would not be peddling this particular lie.

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2 ... squote-bi/
No, sorry, the T at the end of "be" is audible. He says he's going to BEAT Joe Biden. And he might be right.

Perhaps he was rasslin' with his dentures when he made the statement. His uppers almost got the best of him in one of the debates:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYlz0UEyncc

Image

I have to admit that sometimes I have trouble understanding Bidenese. It's not for lack of study though. I've tried to decipher hours of video like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wm_bVewT4xk

And then there's the issue of Biden's other language--his body language:

Where Are Biden's Boundaries?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGxDAHJKuho

His handlers saw fit to muzzle him when they let him out of the basement the other day, and I think that's wise. Until America learns Bidenese, we just won't understand the wisdom of ol' Joe.
User avatar
DWill

1H - GOLD CONTRIBUTOR
BookTalk.org Hall of Fame
Posts: 6966
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2008 8:05 am
16
Location: Luray, Virginia
Has thanked: 2262 times
Been thanked: 2470 times

Re: 173 Declared Democratic Presidential Candidates

Unread post

KindaSkolarly wrote:
DWill wrote:
KindaSkolarly wrote:My new favorite campaign statement from Joe Biden: "I'm prepared to say that I have a record of over forty years and that I'm going to beat Joe Biden."
Inconveniently for you, what Biden said was, "I'm going to be Joe Biden". If you cared about the truth, you would have listened to the comment he actually made, and then perhaps even you would not be peddling this particular lie.

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2 ... squote-bi/
No, sorry, the T at the end of "be" is audible. He says he's going to BEAT Joe Biden. And he might be right.

Perhaps he was rasslin' with his dentures when he made the statement. His uppers almost got the best of him in one of the debates:
Hey, all you need to do is put the brainpower you certainly possess to some good use and listen to what Biden is saying--if Politifact's ruling is anathema for you. The context of Biden's response to the interviewer's question makes it clear beyond reasonable doubt that Biden is saying that he'll continue to act in ways consistent with his past principles, in other words, that he will continue to be Joe Biden. This righto attempt to paint Joe as senile fails miserably.
User avatar
geo

2C - MOD & GOLD
pets endangered by possible book avalanche
Posts: 4779
Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2008 4:24 am
15
Location: NC
Has thanked: 2199 times
Been thanked: 2200 times
United States of America

Re: 173 Declared Democratic Presidential Candidates

Unread post

KindaSkolarly wrote:. . . I have to admit that sometimes I have trouble understanding Bidenese. It's not for lack of study though. I've tried to decipher hours of video like this:
Wow, you have too much time on your hands.
-Geo
Question everything
User avatar
ant

1G - SILVER CONTRIBUTOR
BookTalk.org Hall of Fame
Posts: 5935
Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2011 12:04 pm
12
Has thanked: 1371 times
Been thanked: 969 times

Re: 173 Declared Democratic Presidential Candidates

Unread post

Geo wrote:
Perhaps we should think of the 2020 election as a variation of the trolley problem.

Ah, yes.. another Trolleyologist espousing Trolleyism.

A fantasy script of a world of trolleys.. penned perfectly by he who wishes to be an ethical guide from his armchair and graft a bizarre world totally void of context onto the context rich world of reality .. a reality that is outside the window the armchair philosopher gazes out of.


You wake up and find yourself out in a huge field. There are two railroad tracks.. on track has 5 people and the other track has 4.
A train is approaching in the distance. There is a lever in front of you. You must pull it to divert the train killing either the track with 5 people or the track with 4 people..
The track with 4 people has one female that's pregnant..
The track with 5 people has one person who is a brilliant scientist that may or may not save the world one day

You must choose which group you will save by pulling a lever!


That's mine for today. Which fantasy variant is yours today?

Just who on earth do you think you're talking to here?

Stop passing off armchair thought experiment bullshit as if it is a steadfast ethical guide for the happenings taking place in the real world.
The real world is context rich and filled with information that a bland, bizarre fantasy world cannot equal.

Thought experiments are limited models. The fantasy world of two trolleys carefully crafted is not some ethical guru that can be conjured up as a wise and noble guru that will set your moral compass in life.
You presenting it as a political guide to vote Blue this year or be cast as a villain is an oversimplification.
It is also quite lazy of you.


I am sorry you are willing to accept racism "light" and are also willing to sacrifice the rights of women to be free of sexual harassment.
That to me is not progress.
Last edited by ant on Fri May 29, 2020 4:46 pm, edited 2 times in total.
User avatar
LanDroid

2A - MOD & BRONZE
Comandante Literario Supreme
Posts: 2800
Joined: Sat Jul 27, 2002 9:51 am
21
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Has thanked: 195 times
Been thanked: 1166 times
United States of America

Re: 173 Declared Democratic Presidential Candidates

Unread post

Searching for something else, I found that Ant REALLY HATES the trolley problem. :x
https://www.booktalk.org/post139097.htm ... ey#p139097
User avatar
ant

1G - SILVER CONTRIBUTOR
BookTalk.org Hall of Fame
Posts: 5935
Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2011 12:04 pm
12
Has thanked: 1371 times
Been thanked: 969 times

Re: 173 Declared Democratic Presidential Candidates

Unread post

LanDroid wrote:Searching for something else, I found that Ant REALLY HATES the trolley problem. :x
https://www.booktalk.org/post139097.htm ... ey#p139097

What are you going on about?
Post Reply

Return to “Current Events & History”