DWill wrote:The extremes of right and left meet on this one: 9/11 an inside job. Who says never the twain shall meet? To the point of what Kurt Vonnegut may have thought about it all: should we care?

This particular conspiracy theory does have deeper roots than some of the other stuff that comes from Alex Jones. But the very fact that Alex Jones believes it makes it easy to dismiss it. He's made so many ridiculous claims over the years.

The why we are talking about Kurt Vonnegut is that I questioned Kindskolarly's initial claim that Kurt Vonnegut was a "follower" and "fan" of Alex Jones. I said this was highly unlikely and stand by it. Kindskolarly is now saying that Vonnegut merely sent Alex Jones one of his drawings, but that in itself means nothing. If you've read any of Vonnegut's autobiographical books—particularly A Man Without A Country, published two years before his death—you would know that Vonnegut was a very independent thinker. The idea that he was a "fan" of Alex Jones' is simply preposterous, unless he had dementia in his later years. Furthermore, if the claim that Vonnegut was a "fan" came from Alex Jones' mouth, well, there you have it.

Sorry for my tone. I'm not a fan of Jones or his conspiracy theories.

And by "why should we care?,' I meant that Vonnegut, whatever his political persuasion might be, was an author of imaginative fiction. That's his expertise, if we can call it that, and he is justly famous for it. His being cited as someone whose opinion matters in regard to 9/11 is similar to citing any celebrity on political issues. They don't merit special credibility when they express opinions outside of their fields.

Alex Jones, it's clear by now, doesn't have a sense of shame.

Oh, Vonnegut was a follower of Jones because Infowars said so. And I also found it on the internet when I googled it but it turned out to the OP of this very thread.

The Vonnegut story was just a blip on a few sites at the time, and that was years ago. I was surprised that I found the image of the card. Try DuckDuckGo. Google is a ChiCom company now.

Jones contacted several authors at the time. He asked if he could interview them regarding their opinions about 9/11. The only respondent I recall going on his show was Gore Vidal. I listened to the interview and remember Vidal said, "It seems the age of the thirty-five dollar entree is upon us." I think he'd eaten at the restaurant in the Driskill Hotel the night before. Anyway, they talked about 9/11 and the lack of a NORAD response. Vidal said he was surprised by the testimony of Norman Mineta, who was our Secretary of Transportation on 9/11. NORAD response was supposed to be automatic, but Mineta told this story (1:45):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjR0gGXV-04

So, why was Cheney involved in the NORAD shoot-down process on that day? Vidal said he shouldn't have been. His father had helped set up the intercept protocols and they were automatic, no permission required.

World-Renowned Author Gore Vidal on 9/11
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSCR3TQj9sw

Damn the internet's amazing. I just did another search and found that clip. I'm surprised it hasn't been scrubbed from Youtube. Posted 11 years ago. Jones interviewed Vidal in the studio before it had video capability, and it looks as if he caught Vidal after the radio show for a follow-up on the interceptor information. I'm really glad he did.

DWill wrote:. . . Alex Jones, it's clear by now, doesn't have a sense of shame.

And then there's this:

Alex Jones Is Told to Stop Selling Sham Anti-Coronavirus Toothpaste . . .

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/13/nyre ... -cure.html

Jones isn't claiming to sell anti-coronavirus products. That's a fabrication by his enemies. They've tried everything short of killing him to keep him from disseminating information. They've kicked him off of every social media platform, sued him, run sting operations against him and so on. PayPal and other payment methods have stopped allowing purchases of his products. Yet he pushes ahead. So now they've fabricated this story. It's just the latest effort to silence him. He's fairly litigious, so I hope he sues.

From the Inforwars.com products page: The products sold on this site are not intended for use in the cure, treatment, prevention, or mitigation of any disease, including the novel coronavirus. Any suggestion to the contrary is false and is expressly disavowed.

infowarsstore.com/?ims=kpfxf&utm_ca ... op+Of+Page

The fact that this story is in the NY Times is proof enough that it's bullshit. The Times told us for 3 years that Trump was a Russian agent, proof in tomorrow's edition. Nowadays I read the Times like I used to read the funny papers, it's that amusing. With such a shortage of asswipe on the shelves at the moment the Times might finally get the recognition it deserves.

KindaSkolarly wrote:. . . The fact that this story is in the NY Times is proof enough that it's bullshit. The Times told us for 3 years that Trump was a Russian agent, proof in tomorrow's edition. Nowadays I read the Times like I used to read the funny papers, it's that amusing. With such a shortage of asswipe on the shelves at the moment the Times might finally get the recognition it deserves.

The NYTimes only reported the facts in this case: that the New York State attorney general issued a cease-and-desist order to Alex Jones with regard to his claims that his toothpaste can help fight the Coronavirus. Shoot the messenger all you want.

Did Jones actually claim his toothpaste contains an ingredient that kills the coronavirus? Fortunately, you don't have to take the NYTimes' word for that. This is what Alex Jones said on his radio program on March 10.

Alex Jones wrote:“I’m not going to belabor this, I’m just going to tell you that for just your daily life and your gums and your teeth for regular viruses and bacteria, the patented nanosilver we have, the Pentagon has come out and documented and Homeland Security has said this stuff kills the whole SARS-corona family at point blank range. Well of course it does, it kills every virus.

“But they found that. This is 13 years ago. And the Pentagon uses the product we have. And the product we have in private label is about to be in Walmart, coming up. They’ve just ordered a massive crap ton, not the one they have, but this even better one that we have. So I’m just saying we’re always cutting edge, thanks to God.”

The relevant words: "kills the whole SARS-corona family at point blank range."

Jones made similar claims on his InfoNews web site, but these have been removed and various disclaimers added because Jones was ordered to do so by New York State attorney general.

Thus the NYTimes statement is absolutely and verifiably true: "Mr. Jones, who has used his radio show and website to promote conspiracy theories, is falsely claiming his products can fight the virus."

Sorry, Alex Jones is a charlatan and first-rate douche nozzle. His lies and propaganda will not be spewed on BookTalk without challenge.

KindaSkolarly wrote:Our govt told us that the laws of physics were suspended on 9/11.

Whatever nonsense is behind that claim, your violations of the laws of credibility have long since crossed the line from where I might have been interested in knowing.

KindaSkolarly wrote:Anybody who doesn't face the fact that our govt was involved in the false flag attack is a craven coward.

I can think of a few other possible interpretations.

KindaSkolarly wrote:History will not forgive us for letting our leaders get away with the obvious lie of 9/11.

Well, that's putting off the reckoning by quite a bit. I have seen enough conspiracy theories in my time to know 1) one of them may be correct about 9/11, and 2) it isn't government suppression of evidence that will keep us from ever knowing, it is the endless capacity for inventiveness to outpace evidence. The fictionalization process that is conspiracy theorizing will never, ever let an accumulation of evidence decide anything without challenge.

If someone did uncover evidence that would be decisive to a dispassionate observer, the conspiracy buffs would proceed to identify six more niggling details that "prove" that "the laws of physics were contradicted" by the actual explanation, and spin out more paranoid hypotheticals. The interest of conspiracy theorists is directly proportional to the emotional impact of the event in question, and, oddly enough, also directly proportional to the evidence which can be brought to bear.

The earth is flat, you know. But they want you to believe it's round. And history will not forgive our failure to question this endless perpetuation of the Big Lie.

The most OUTLANDISH 9/11 conspiracy is that 19 non-pilots overcame all US air defenses. Anybody who defends that fairy tale has an anti-American agenda, even an anti-human agenda, given what's been done to the world in the name of the "war on terror."

As far as Jones goes, he's more trustworthy than the people telling you that a vaccine for the ChiComm Flu is on the way. It's a coronavirus, same as the common cold. We all know the old bromide, "They can put a man on the moon but they can't cure the common cold." If there was a cure for the cold, we'd have had it by now.

So the vaccine promise is bullshit. On the other hand, by listening to Jones' show lately I've learned about the importance of zinc for our immune systems. I ordered a bunch dirt-cheap and we've begun taking it, to build up the levels in our blood. Zinc interferes with a virus's ability to replicate once it's inside your cells. But zinc has trouble making it through your cell walls. Chloroquine, the most promising drug to treat the ChiCom Flu, helps zinc get through cell membranes. But you have to have a good level of zinc already in your system. So we're elevating our zinc levels, and if we get sick we'll let the medicos know that and request the chloroquine treatment.

Anyway, that's what I've learned from Jones and his guests lately, while the government tells you that they're going to inject you with bullshit (could be, literal bullshit. How would you know?). They can't cure the common cold, but they're gonna cure you of the ChiCom Flu? Buy guns people. Decide later if you want to take shots or return shots, but buy guns now, while you still can.

Chloroquine Known as Effective Against Coronavirus Since 2005
"Chloroquine works by enabling the body’s cells better to absorb zinc, which is key in preventing viral RNA transcription – and disrupting the often fatal cytokine storm."
breitbart.com/politics/2020/03/19/chlor ... ince-2005/

Below is a link to a good piece by Mike Adams, a nutrition expert that Jones has on his show from time to time. Depressing message, but as good an example of justified, simmering rage as I've ever read. I'll paste some excerpts:

You are now living under the tyranny you deserve, for you said nothing when the Big Tech censors came for the truth-tellers who warned you this would happen

...The reason you are stuck in an apartment in a high-density city, beating your head against the wall while your stock market portfolio vanishes with each passing day is because you thought it was more important to be obedient than free. You went along with the hyperventilating, screaming masses as they demanded the de-platforming of Natural News, InfoWars and an endless list of independent media organizations, claiming your “fact checkers” had a divine monopoly on facts (even though they were mostly funded by interests linked back to Big Pharma)....

...You are now living under tyranny because you thought your willingness to obediently conform to the twisted, insane narratives of the ruling class would immunize you from their tyranny. You were wrong. Now, the tyranny comes for you too, since you were too pathetic to speak out for others who were targeted before the ruling class got to you. Suddenly, you are coming to realize that you are living as a slave, a prisoner in your own apartment, in an economy that’s now owned and run by the central banks, with no job, no means of self-sustenance and no real hope for the future that you helped create....

....Soon, you will be microchipped, then euthanized, and everything you ever produced will be confiscated or stolen by the very system that you demanded be given absolute power....

....You still demand censorship. You still demand vaccine mandates. You still watch CNN and think it’s “news,” and you still think “alternative” voices should be silenced....

...Because you’ve learned nothing, even as your own destruction approaches. You have failed as a human being and as a spiritual being. Your life means nothing, and your existence on this planet has been nothing but a colossal waste of time, resources and biological molecules. Your entire existence has been pointless because you did not dare challenge the status quo or exercise any ability to think for yourself. You lived your life as nothing but a Programmable Life Form (PLF), also known as an NPC in role playing games....

governmentslaves.news/2020/03/28/you-ar ... ld-happen/

He mentions that our overlords don't need us anymore and gives some figures. That comes from an article Bill Joy wrote for Wired Magazine back in 2000. Alex Jones references the article a lot:

Why the Future Doesn't Need Us
https://www.wired.com/2000/04/joy-2/

Check out the zinc thing, folks. I got ours on eBay.

KindaSkolarly wrote:. . . As far as Jones goes, he's more trustworthy than the people telling you that a vaccine for the ChiComm Flu is on the way. It's a coronavirus, same as the common cold. We all know the old bromide, "They can put a man on the moon but they can't cure the common cold." If there was a cure for the cold, we'd have had it by now.

So the vaccine promise is bullshit. On the other hand, by listening to Jones' show lately I've learned about the importance of zinc for our immune systems.

I think I’ll sit out the 9/11 conspiracy bullshit for now, but otherwise a couple of quick comments . . .

Several news sources have reported that potential vaccines are in development. Actually WHO officials say at least 50 coronavirus vaccines are in development and some have even entered the testing phase. Someone should inform these scientists that a vaccine is not possible.

So no one is “promising” a vaccine. These news sources are reporting that efforts are underway to find a vaccine for the coronavirus. I suspect you are getting your information from less-than-credible sources. In any event, why would you rely on Alex Jones for scientific information?

A quick perusal of online sources reveals that, yes, potential vaccines/treatments for coronavirus are in development.

From the CDC web site . . .

There is no cure for COVID-19 at this time. Health officials say some specific drugs are in development for treatment, but more research is needed.

Wikipedia . . .

A COVID-19 vaccine is a hypothetical vaccine against coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19). Although no vaccine has completed clinical trials, there are multiple attempts in progress to develop such a vaccine. In late February 2020, the World Health Organization (WHO) said it did not expect a vaccine against SARS-CoV-2, the causative virus, to become available in less than 18 months.[1] By April 2020, some 50 vaccine candidates were in development, with four organizations having initiated Phase I safety studies in human subjects.

America Chemistry Society

Since the first reports of a new coronavirus disease in Wuhan, China, in December 2019, COVID-19 has spread rapidly across the globe, threatening a pandemic. Now, researchers from CAS, a division of the American Chemical Society specializing in scientific information solutions, have issued a special report in ACS Central Science. In the report, they provide an overview of published scientific information on potential therapeutic agents and vaccines for the virus, with an emphasis on patents.

https://www.acs.org/content/acs/en/pres ... id-19.html

Finally, your argument—there’s no cure for the common cold, thus there can be no vaccine for the coronavirus—is not valid. The biggest impediment to a vaccination against the common cold is that there are too many strains of it. There are 160 strains of rhinoviruses, while there are only two strains of coronavirus. Thus, it has proven very difficult to find a vaccine for the common cold, but this does not hold true for the novel coronavirus.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/arti ... -cold-yet/