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For Your Impeachment Consideration

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DB Roy
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Re: For Your Impeachment Consideration

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Interbane wrote:Even if the error was made by incompetence, what sort of precedent would it set to allow him to get away with an otherwise impeachable offense? Is it really a defense to say that he's so stupid he doesn't realize what he's done is wrong? Wouldn't that pass into the territory of gross incompetence?
The way I see it, he wanted to be president. So being too stupid for the job is no excuse. When you tell me you want this position or that position, okay. Fine with me. But if you turn out to be a walking disaster, I will not stick up for you. You wanted the job, you got the job--now DO the job. If you can't do the job then leave the job. If you refuse to leave the job then you must be removed from the job.

Go to any workplace in America and see if I'm wrong.
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DWill

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Re: For Your Impeachment Consideration

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DB Roy wrote:
DWill wrote:
DB Roy wrote:White people are funny.
I don't understand your comment.
And hence my comment.
I didn't think I needed to add, " Please explain. "
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DWill

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Re: For Your Impeachment Consideration

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The point Thiessen is trying to make isn't that incompetence, or stupidity, releases people from responsibility for what they do. He's not saying that Trump's incompetence makes him not guilty of a quid pro quo; in fact, Thiessen seems to doubt that there was a quid pro quo, calling it "alleged." The incompetence he speaks of is more general, encompassing Trump's entire tenure, and is most attributable to his extreme gullibility and his lack of any guiding principles. His mind is a welter of urges and momentary convictions that rise from "information" the people around him, and on TV, feed him, and his need for attention. Those traits are also typical of someone who lacks intelligence.

Thiessen's verdict would seem to be that, yes, Trump is unfit for the office, but that impeachment isn't designed to remove presidents who are disastrously incompetent without having committed high crimes and misdemeanors. Thiessen doesn't think Trump has done this, but the Democrats have moved to bring their charges in line with one of the only two specific crimes named in the Constitution: bribery. The inquiry needs to firmly establish the basis for a bribery charge. If it can't, there is still the illegality of asking for something of value from a foreign govt. in regard to a U.S. election. Is that a high enough crime, though?

It's really hard to escape the influence of Trump's history of lying, vindictiveness, cowardice, and inconstancy when deciding whether he should be impeached. But it seems important to keep that separate.

(Regarding unfitness, Trump put a big exclamation point on it with his extraordinary and baseless attack on former ambassador Yovanovitch during her testimony yesterday.)
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DB Roy
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Re: For Your Impeachment Consideration

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DWill wrote:.
I didn't think I needed to add, " Please explain. "
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9qv8RS ... wEOoZhKs7I
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Taylor

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Re: For Your Impeachment Consideration

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So far what is lacking is the “John Dean” moment, the inner circle guy to drop dimes on PSfB. This person is there but has not been motivated to step forward.

I think that an aspect of this particular impeachment is that we are learning that no two impeachments are alike. Comparisons are difficult as a result.

There has been a cumulative lowering of standards from the moment PSfB descended that escalator and announced his intention to be President. I am convinced that the best message to put out to the people of the planet Earth is to throw this guy out of office immediately and permanently. Clear and decisive messaging is muddled by articles such as Thiessen’s. Bribery, extortion, asking favors for personal political gain is unconstitutional, PSfB accomplishes all that, it’s right there in the phone transcripts, David Brooks has no doubt of the implied intent of PSfB’s actions, he’s objective enough for me.

I get the desire to be “agnostic” in thinking of this event, we want to be fair, we want to give voice to all sides and I think that so far we are doing that.

To me there are things of greater value at stake, eliminating opinion as fact comes to mind, the notion of alternative facts, It’s a blight on reason. Are these high crimes and misdemeanors? No, but they are a means to sow doubt in people’s minds. That doubt favors PSfB. There is no risk in throwing the guy out. If history provides that it was a mistake, I’ll wager our chucking him would be the lesser cost. Current economics alone will not get trump re-elected, he needs his various hoaxes.

I would say that Thiessen is in fact making the case for removal via the 25tth amendment, that lack of intelligence in a president of the United States is clearly a disability, not just for PSfB but more importantly for the country.

At the bottom of DWill’ linked article there are at least a half dozen articles with differing opinions.
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