Online reading group and book discussion forum
  HOME ENTER FORUMS OUR BOOKS LINKS DONATE ADVERTISE CONTACT  
View unanswered posts | View active topics It is currently Thu Nov 14, 2019 10:10 am





Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 34 posts ] • Topic evaluate: Evaluations: 1, 5.00 on the average.Evaluations: 1, 5.00 on the average.Evaluations: 1, 5.00 on the average.Evaluations: 1, 5.00 on the average.Evaluations: 1, 5.00 on the average.  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3
ex-christian.net 
Author Message
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
pets endangered by possible book avalanche

BookTalk.org Moderator
Platinum Contributor

Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 4380
Location: NC
Thanks: 1861
Thanked: 1929 times in 1444 posts
Gender: Male

Post Re: ex-christian.net
DWill wrote:
Then we have that tricky issue, discussed by geo and others, of what we mean, even approximately, when we say "God." Whether or not there may be a God becomes a matter about which less certainty or uncertainty is available, as we get to concepts much less like the Bible God and more like some diffuse spiritual presence that doesn't minister to individuals . . .

Yes! The word “God” means different things to different people. And yet no one wants to acknowledge the etymological diffuseness of the word. And so we talk past one another, shooting at targets the other can’t see.

The words “mind” and “soul” are similarly fuzzy, I think. Mary Midgely, the late philosopher (in her book, WHAT IS PHILOSOPHY FOR?) talks about this problem, saying we need not fear words like “mind” and “soul” and that there are nine and sixty ways to look at a problem and all of them are right. Richard Dawkins and Mary Midgley each take a dim view of Cartesian dualism, though for very different reasons. Midgley argues that finding common ground between disparate viewpoints is where philosophy can help.

But if there's no such thing as a soul, how would we discuss this Shakespearean sonnet?

Poor soul, the centre of my sinful earth,
[Why feed'st] these rebel powers that thee array?
Why dost thou pine within, and suffer dearth,
Painting thy outward walls so costly gay?
Why so large cost, having so short a lease,
Dost thou upon thy fading mansion spend?
Shall worms, inheritors of this excess,
Eat up thy charge? is this thy body's end?
Then soul, live thou upon thy servant's loss,
And let that pine to aggravate thy store;
Buy terms divine in selling hours of dross;
Within be fed, without be rich no more:
So shalt thou feed on Death, that feeds on men,
And, Death once dead, there's no more dying then.


_________________
-Geo
Question everything


The following user would like to thank geo for this post:
DWill, Lawrence
Thu Sep 19, 2019 1:25 pm
Profile
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
BookTalk.org Hall of Fame

Platinum Contributor

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 6340
Location: Luray, Virginia
Thanks: 1839
Thanked: 2028 times in 1536 posts
Gender: Male
Country: United States (us)

Post Re: ex-christian.net
So, if it does seem to us that there is no immortal soul, that whatever we mean by "soul" comes to us by virtue of our living flesh, is there still a valid use of the word, or are we sort of mooching off religion when we use the word?

I'm not comfortable using the word, for fear of being misunderstood. I can see why it seems natural to use "soul," though. Each one of the 7-plus billion of us is unique, even genetically identical twins. That unique aspect is what we might be thinking about and calling "soul."



Fri Sep 20, 2019 8:33 am
Profile
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
Internet Sage

Gold Contributor 2

Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 346
Location: Florida
Thanks: 56
Thanked: 50 times in 36 posts
Gender: Male
Country: United States (us)

Post Re: ex-christian.net
WELL THIS IS THE END
I have given you folks enough time to dig into what I have been saying to comment. I am indebted to Chris O’Connor for his infinite patience with me it making my statement in this forum. He has always said to keep it short. So this time I will try to oblige.
Not one you, I have read, or ever read, seems to realize that we are 13.5 billion light years on the evolutionary scale of becoming. Every one of you, and I submit the authors you cite, seems to think the beginning of the universe of thought began with the Greek or Egyptian or some other thinkers.
Well a cursory of thinkers, being critically reviewed, establishes there are 7 critically logical explanations as to how a “god” could be established to validate our existence. For us, in this man declared 21st century, we have yet to decide which one is the “real” god to trust our lives, our fortunes, and our destiny to. . . and the followers of each of the seven religions are killing us…in the name of their religion. If that isn’t crazy I don’t have a better definition of crazy.
Everyone acknowledges that the current system of governments are all broken. We need to examine our system of providing for the social well being of the people in order to better provide for the health, wealth, and future of our people in order to have a better system for their future.
It cannot be by the use of force to impose your will on another. Right now, no one knows any better than anyone else. Where do we go from here? With love. A definition of love that changes the way we think. A deep appreciation of and gratitude for the object loved. Coupled with the idea you cannot use force to impose you will on another will guarantee we can figure out the better course for humanity.



The following user would like to thank Lawrence for this post:
Chris OConnor
Mon Nov 04, 2019 3:32 pm
Profile Email
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
BookTalk.org Hall of Fame

BookTalk.org Owner
Diamond Contributor 3

Joined: May 2002
Posts: 16169
Location: Florida
Thanks: 3492
Thanked: 1326 times in 1045 posts
Gender: Male
Country: United States (us)

Post Re: ex-christian.net
Lawrence, what do you mean by saying this is the end?

Surely we all have more to think about and discuss. I mean it doesn't feel like the end to me. Yes, love is the glue that can hold people together but surely there is something going on at a deeper level than our human consciousness that keeps people separated and in competing groups. Knowing that love matters doesn't seem to be enough. Most people only love the members of their group.

The past few years have brought me to the realization or conclusion that the thing that keeps us fighting is tribalism. Tribalism happens at a subconscious level that the average thinker isn't even aware of. Long ago in our early days as a species we lived in tribes and villages. Basically small social groups. The members depended on each other for their survival. Loving the members of your group and considering the members of other groups as dangerous and to be feared and hated was what worked to keep us safe.

But times have changed yet we have this tribalism problem in our very DNA. Democrats hate the Republicans and Republicans detest the Dems. Neither actually listens to the others perspective. Why not? Because the other guy isn't a part of our tribe. We don't even know why we hate so much. It happens at a deeper level than most people are aware.

If you want to solve the worlds problems figure out a way to include ALL humans into a tribe called "humanity" and get the members of this tribe to recognize we're all more alike than different. Oh, but wait.... that doesn't solve the problem it just kicks the problem further down the field. We need to treat all creatures capable of suffering and/or pleasure with respect. That goes for all species on this planet AND all alien creatures we may one day come across. We need to get rid of tribe mentality completely.



The following user would like to thank Chris OConnor for this post:
Harry Marks, Lawrence, Robert Tulip
Mon Nov 04, 2019 10:43 pm
Profile Email WWW
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 34 posts ] • Topic evaluate: Evaluations: 1, 5.00 on the average.Evaluations: 1, 5.00 on the average.Evaluations: 1, 5.00 on the average.Evaluations: 1, 5.00 on the average.Evaluations: 1, 5.00 on the average.  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 11 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:



Site Resources 
HELPFUL INFO:
Forum Rules & Tips
Frequently Asked Questions
BBCode Explained
Author Interview Transcripts
Be a Book Discussion Leader!

IDEAS FOR WHAT TO READ:
Bestsellers
Book Awards
• Book Reviews
• Online Books
• Team Picks
Newspaper Book Sections

WHERE TO BUY BOOKS:
• Great resource pages are coming!

BEHIND THE BOOKS:
• Great resource pages are coming!

PROMOTE YOUR BOOK!
Advertise on BookTalk.org
How To Promote Your Book





BookTalk.org is a thriving book discussion forum, online reading group or book club. We read and talk about both fiction and non-fiction books as a community. Our forums are open to anyone in the world. While discussing books is our passion we also have active forums for talking about poetry, short stories, writing and authors. Our general discussion forum section includes forums for discussing science, religion, philosophy, politics, history, current events, arts, entertainment and more. We hope you join us!


Navigation 
MAIN NAVIGATION

HOMEFORUMSOUR BOOKSAUTHOR INTERVIEWSADVERTISELINKSFAQDONATETERMS OF USEPRIVACY POLICYSITEMAP

OTHER PAGES WORTH EXPLORING
Banned Book ListOnline Reading GroupTop 10 Atheism Books

Copyright © BookTalk.org 2002-2019. All rights reserved.
Display Pagerank