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Some Notes on Evolution 
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Post Re: Some Notes on Evolution
Magus wrote:
Your talking about many vast systems that are extremely complex that could not possibly have happened by random chance.
...Why is evolution a limiting belief? Because it insinuates you as being a random worthless insignificant accident.
...You are not 4 billion people on a ball randomly accidentally evolving.

I recall you stated early on that you don't believe in evolution because it doesn't make any sense. However the statements above indicate you misunderstand the process. Evolution is not based on randomness, chance, or accident. It is a two step process.
  1. Evolution is a process that results in changes in the genetic material (a change in allele frequencies) of a population over time. There is an element of chance involved in mutations that are generated, but that is constrained by the genome that exists.
  2. Organisms with these changes in genetic material interact with the environment. Changes that are favorable survive and reproduce, passing improvements on to future generations. Mutations that are not favorable die out. This eliminates the element of randomness, chance, or accident.



Thu Oct 17, 2019 6:40 pm
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Post Re: Some Notes on Evolution
LanDroid wrote:
I recall you stated early on that you don't believe in evolution because it doesn't make any sense. However the statements above indicate you misunderstand the process. Evolution is not based on randomness, chance, or accident. It is a two step process.
Evolution is a process that results in changes in the genetic material (a change in allele frequencies) of a population over time. There is an element of chance involved in mutations that are generated, but that is constrained by the genome that exists.
Organisms with these changes in genetic material interact with the environment. Changes that are favorable survive and reproduce, passing improvements on to future generations. Mutations that are not favorable die out. This eliminates the element of randomness, chance, or accident.


I see what you mean LanDroid, I was mostly thinking about how random mutations supposedly occur some of which "survive." That would mean a lot of what you are was by accident even if there was some order to how the evolutionary process made improvements. Though if you continue with the thought process of evolution further most people that believe in evolution also believe that life started by random accident. In the past it was that lightning struck some puddle and magically created life (spontaneous generation), while today most people just don't think about it at all they evade the questions science can't answer believing in something like panspermia which doesn't address the core issue.

The reason I say that evolution doesn't make sense is because how can something randomly evolve parts that require other parts to be functional? If your looking for a logical scientific disprover than I think cell complexity is very good to show how it doesn't make sense, but lets look at an even simpler example of a bodily system. How does the heart evolve to pump blood, if you have no blood, and no veins... The three parts, heart, blood, and veins, must come into existence at the same time. Whoop, and let's not forget that the Brain stem controls the heart and the vessels which the heart relies upon for survival adding an impossible symbiosis to explain by evolution.

And that example with the heart is just a very simple system which is actually more complex than I lead it on to be, but there are systems so vastly complex inside organism that evolution falls apart when you begin to scrutinize.

That was all just an appeal to your scientific logical side, but the main reason you should know that evolution is a fraud is because we are living in a universe created by thought, conscious energy.

You want proof of my claims you say. Well, it just so happens I know this to be true from not only my studies, but from my personal experience in meditation, energetic practices, and shamanic psychedelic trips. Now of course I don't expect my personal experiences to be proof to you so I will offer you this:

You agree that every night when you dream your dreams are a creation of your thought, and yet when you are dreaming the worlds you experience seem just as real and solid as the one we are experiencing now. If those worlds can be created by thought there is no logical reason to assume that this one can't be. In fact when you get into the occult esoteric teaching they teach that what you consider to be "the real reality" this reality we are experiencing now is actually the dream. And the realities you experience while dreaming are the quote "real" ones and this is absolutely true. This is why most people today are spiritually asleep! This is why telling someone to WAKE UP is common, but people don't really know what it actually means.

The dreamer and the dreamed, for some fun I will leave you with a little parable that I very much enjoy:
Zhuangzi wrote:
"Once upon a time, I, Zhuangzi, dreamt I was a butterfly, fluttering hither and thither, to all intents and purposes a butterfly. I was conscious only of my happiness as a butterfly, unaware that I was Zhuangzi. Soon I awakened, and there I was, veritably myself again. Now I do not know whether I was then a man dreaming I was a butterfly, or whether I am now a butterfly, dreaming I am a man. Between a man and a butterfly there is necessarily a distinction. The transition is called the transformation of material things."


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Thu Oct 17, 2019 9:37 pm
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Post Re: Some Notes on Evolution
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I was mostly thinking about how random mutations supposedly occur some of which "survive." That would mean a lot of what you are was by accident even if there was some order to how the evolutionary process made improvements.

Yes that is a common misunderstanding. The interaction with the environment eliminates chance or randomness; what improves fitness for survival passes down to future generations.
Quote:
How does the heart evolve to pump blood, if you have no blood, and no veins... The three parts, heart, blood, and veins, must come into existence at the same time. Whoop, and let's not forget that the Brain stem controls the heart and the vessels which the heart relies upon for survival adding an impossible symbiosis to explain by evolution.

You brought up this line of argument before in misquoting Darwin. You said he could not explain the evolution of the eye. But a fuller context of his quote that was provided indicates he thought it was possible to evolve from simple dark / light sensors into ever more complicated organs as visual acuity conferred a survival advantage. Similar processes evolving from simple systems to currently complex systems explain many of your questions. But if you are unwilling to look into them, you will just keep repeating the same misconceptions.

I am interested in drawing you out on your experiences of the Intelligence behind the Universe. Can you give any specific truths you have learned? Preferably something more detailed than "we are all interconnected."



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Harry Marks
Fri Oct 18, 2019 5:17 pm
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Post Re: Some Notes on Evolution
LanDroid wrote:
Yes that is a common misunderstanding. The interaction with the environment eliminates chance or randomness; what improves fitness for survival passes down to future generations.
I wouldn't really say that it eliminates chance and randomness, it just sort of refines it.

LanDroid wrote:
You brought up this line of argument before in misquoting Darwin. You said he could not explain the evolution of the eye. But a fuller context of his quote that was provided indicates he thought it was possible to evolve from simple dark / light sensors into ever more complicated organs as visual acuity conferred a survival advantage. Similar processes evolving from simple systems to currently complex systems explain many of your questions. But if you are unwilling to look into them, you will just keep repeating the same misconceptions.
Well it's not really that I am unwilling to look into them, I have looked into it, I just don't believe it. Like with the heart, blood, veins, and brain example I gave I'm sure the evolutionists would make something up like in the past the multicell organisms had some goo inside and a heart and veins slowly evolved over time to start pushing that goo around. Any explanation they give is just conjecture because the undeniable fact is that none of it has ever been observed. Scientists literally sit around and think up possible explanations for flaws in their theories. The problem with having a think tank of scientists thinking up possible explanations for flaws in their theories is that just because you can think up an explanation for how complex systems could evolve that doesn't make it true it just means that you can argue it and bash children on the head with it in schools.

I want to get you thinking about this in a different way, do you believe that an artificial machine with artificial consciousness could randomly and accidentally come into existence and evolve? Of course it would start out as just a single nanoprobe type thing resembling a cell and over time it would evolve into more. Do you think something like this is at all possible?

LanDroid wrote:
I am interested in drawing you out on your experiences of the Intelligence behind the Universe. Can you give any specific truths you have learned? Preferably something more detailed than "we are all interconnected."
MMMMM specific truths about the intelligence behind the universe. Alright, everything is a creation of the great universal mind of source consciousness. Your individual perspective is so unique that it is cherished and revered. You are literally source consciousness experiencing the unique perspective that we on this forum call "LanDroid". To achieve this source had to create a perceived "separation" from the whole of itself, but that separation is what creates the illusion of reality.

From my understanding of source, unlike what most religions teach, source consciousness did not create your reality (your world), nor does it interfere in anyone's life because it respects your perspective far too much to ever do that. You are solely responsible for creating your reality and everything you have ever experienced or will experience. Instead of praying to something that is outside yourself you should look inward and you will find that you have the power to create any reality for yourself that you could ever want. There is no judgement that is foolish, source consciousness is a collector of experiences and it does not value one experience over another. To put it another way that's not so confusing, you were allowed to borrow the energy of source consciousness so that you might create a new experience for source, and eventually at some point source will withdraw all it's energy back into itself expanding its awareness from all of our experiences which we have given it.

Does this sound familiar? After it withdraws all its energy back in to expand its awareness it then repeats the process sending it's energy back out creating what you call another "big bang."


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Fri Oct 18, 2019 8:32 pm
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