Chris OConnor wrote:I've seen a few complaints about this thread but unless I'm missing something this sort of discussion is healthy and good for BookTalk.org. I know things can get heated, especially when discussing someone as controversial as Alex Jones, but disagreement and debate are a good thing. If anyone feels that things have gotten out of hand please send me a private message with the offensive quote so I can see it for myself. Simply reporting a thread doesn't show me the specific infraction.

And please everyone play nice.

I would say to the complainers, address complaints to the poster. Every once in a while I feel it's appropriate to react to KS, just because otherwise there could be an appearance of his most extreme views going unchallenged. But geo is right that such gestures are probably futile. If anyone is hinting at "banning," I think that 's not a good idea, as KS is fine as far as his conduct toward other users here.

KindaSkolarly wrote:So when did Alex Jones say that nobody died at the Sandy Hook school shooting? I remember he put out a 20-thousand dollar reward for proof that he said that, but nobody ever claimed the money. Or did they? Can you post the clip, please? I may have missed it, but even the far-left disinfo site BuzzFeed doesn't push that story anymore.

"On the InfoWars channel that he founded, Jones has repeatedly suggested the Sandy Hook massacre was a "total hoax" carried out by crisis actors on behalf of opponents of the Second Amendment."
Source (with more interesting stuff):
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/201 ... 318972002/
That is certainly good enough for me. If you are going to push an "Alex Jones is innocent" theory, you are going to have trouble getting anyone to listen.

He has himself admitted what a liar he was:
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/alex-jon ... c0daca7202

KindaSkolarly wrote: Jones questions.

Jones violates people's privacy to promote death threats against people who point out what a liar he is. You will never, ever, find the "mainstream media" doing that. I would feel deeply ashamed of myself if I had supported someone who acted like that.

KindaSkolarly wrote: In the past week the mainstream media reported that Jones lost a defamation case for a book he wrote called Nobody Died at Sandy Hook. Only problem is, he never wrote the book. Two other guys did, and the media merely attached Jones' name to the story for a couple of hours, then edited it out. Jones' staff saved screenshots of the original.

Also this week the media reported that Jones called the Sandy Hook lawyers "white Jew-boys." Problem is, he said "white-shoe boys." It's a term for Ivy Leaguers.

The destruction of Alex Jones seems to be of paramount importance to the Washington establishment and its compliant media

.
Assuming we take any of this seriously, which I am not interested enough to do, a lie by a critic does not make the criticized person any less (or more) guilty. We know what a scum he is, and how unfortunate his dittoheads are.

KindaSkolarly wrote:Jones had James O'Keefe on his show today. O'Keefe founded Project Veritas, and he's just released a bombshell undercover video of a Google executive admitting the company is working to keep Trump from getting re-elected:

I wouldn't believe a thing I saw on an O'Keefe video. His record of distortion is so extreme, and manufacture of false but convincing video is now so accessible, that it is entirely predictable for him to make up video from whole cloth. Credibility lost cannot be regained.

KindaSkolarly wrote:So, if it's bad for a foreign country to meddle in US elections, is it OK for a multi-national corporation to do the same?

I am not going to look at the video, but the prima facie answer is yes. Foreign countries may not assist candidates and may not try to influence elections. Period. That's why Dear Leader was once again scoffing at the rule of law when he said openly that he would accept such assistance. I would not swear that Democrats wouldn't do the same, but at least they have the intelligence to be ashamed of it and pay lip service to the law.

As for corporations, the kind of divisiveness that Putin promoted, here and in England, would be morally scurrilous and bad business. But not, actually, illegal.

KindaSkolarly wrote:The mainstream media seems to think so.

The evidence for this is what you think they will say and do.

KindaSkolarly wrote:If it reports on the story at all it will probably be to demonize O'Keefe yet again for filming people without their knowledge.

The problem is not that he does sting videos, the problem is that he distorts what he sees. Read the info.

KindaSkolarly wrote: Look for his abortion videos, the ones where his people pretend to be in the market for organs from aborted babies. They find sellers. Monsters really do exist.

O'Keefe knew very well that they are only recovering costs of providing the tissues, and not selling for the sake of profit or in any way supporting their program. They are limited to that by law. He didn't care. As Boris Johnson said, "The facts don't matter. It's the underlying truth that matters."

KindaSkolarly wrote:But thankfully Trump said that killing Iranians wouldn't be a proportional response.

Of course he could have worked that out before he got the estimate of collateral damage. But I was very happy to see him make a sound decision on the basis of proportionality. It offers a lot of hope in many other parts of the world. His trade wars have been, for the most part, proportional as well, although the way he has gone about them was very harmful to the process of trade policy, upon which the peaceful post-war order was built.

KindaSkolarly wrote: Educate yourself.

Chris OConnor wrote:And please everyone play nice.

Oops.

Sen. Ted Cruz (R-TX) grilled a Google representative about the Silicon Valley giant’s political bias Tuesday during a Senate Commerce Committee hearing.
breitbart.com/tech/2019/06/25/watch-ted ... ical-bias/

Google claims to be a "neutral public forum." This gives it legal protections that newspapers and other media don't enjoy. But Google is now playing an activist role in politics by manipulating search results to suppress conservative content. If they ever WERE a neutral forum, they're not now.

I find it odd that, back when the TV show 60 Minutes was doing undercover video stings, people praised the practice. But now when we get the same thing updated, people scream about having their ignorance violated. Google is openly saying that it wants to hack the 2020 presidential election. The most powerful company in the history of the world plans to select the next US president. I don't see how any American, of any political persuasion, could be okay with that.

So let's see, comments...

Yes, you should be concerned about this thread, Chris. If Big Tech can censor Alex Jones, who's next? Books are dangerous, and a book discussion forum...well that's ESPECIALLY dangerous. So, since booktalk allows Alex Jones' name to be mentioned, Google's algorithms may start directing search traffic away from here. Type in "book discussion forum" in the not-too-distant future and you may get the Clinton Foundation's bookstore as the # 1 result, booktalk # 100.

A chart that some may find interesting:



Almost all of the mainstream media sources shown there are leftist. Fox News & Drudgereport are to the right of center, along with a cluster of people like Rush Limbaugh. The thing is, that cluster is the Fox News team. The graphic is deceptive. You leftists can take comfort in the fact that 90% of the mainstream media is, as always, vomiting forth intentionally divisive hatred.

I've found it increasingly hard to discuss history and current events with people who are still plugged into mainstream news. I may not know much, but I know better than to believe what I'm told by MSM conglomerates. I mean, they SWORE for two and a half years that Trump was ABSOLUTELY a Russian agent. So how can you ever again trust "reporters" who did that?

A sample of stories currently on Infowars.com:

* Hollywood Superstar Claims Victim of Pedophilia, Molested While Working For Disney As Child
* Terrorism! Antifa Carried Out More Than 20 Acid Attacks in Portland, Oregon
* Facebook & Twitter Still Hosting Content For Antifa Group Responsible for Portland Violence
And my favorite story:
* ‘F**k You, Mr. President’: Joe Biden’s Son Responds To Trump Threat To Probe Ukraine Business Ties

The Bidens are in so much trouble now.

Blasts from the past:

Joe Biden's 2020 Ukrainian nightmare: A closed probe is revived
thehill.com/opinion/white-house/436816- ... is-revived

How and why the U.S. Government Perpetrated the 2014 Coup in Ukraine
moderndiplomacy.eu/2018/06/04/how-and-w ... n-ukraine/

When vice-president Joe Biden wasn't perving around groping women and sniffing their hair, he was doing his bit to advance fascism on the world stage. During this period his son burned a BUNCH of crack cocaine and made millions of dollars trading on his father's name. All of that was "crazy conspiracy talk" when Alex Jones reported on it in real time, but now it seems that the truth about the Bidens' lurid past is about to go mainstream. Even NPR is starting to report on Creepy Joe and his boy. The piece below was on their Morning Edition show today. Surprised the hell out of me. NPR (National Public Radio) is the US government's primary propagandizing instrument:

'New Yorker' Examines Hunter Biden's Business And Personal Struggles
npr.org/2019/07/01/737535435/new-yorker ... -struggles

So NPR is now, delinquently, reporting what Alex Jones reported as it happened.

KindaSkolarly wrote: A chart that some may find interesting:



Almost all of the mainstream media sources shown there are leftist. Fox News & Drudgereport are to the right of center, along with a cluster of people like Rush Limbaugh. The thing is, that cluster is the Fox News team. The graphic is deceptive. You leftists can take comfort in the fact that 90% of the mainstream media is, as always, vomiting forth intentionally divisive hatred.

First, let me say that you typically mix in points that might be well-taken, such as some of the stuff about google and perhaps the Biden story, along with points that veer toward the ridiculous.

Your chart is badly outdated. It also is more meaningful to look at independent ratings of media bias or polls in which respondents rate the bias of news sources. Following is one such poll. Note that NPR and PBS get good marks for evenhandedness, which contradicts your absurd charge below about NPR.
https://www.businessinsider.com/most-an ... ica-2018-6
I had to laugh at "vomiting forth intentionally divisive hatred," because the words themselves reflect the divisiveness and hatred of much of what you post. But I realize you're taking from the Trumpian playbook: accuse the enemy of whatever they've tried to tag you with.

I have another suggestion: let's not even talk about Limbaugh, Hannity, Jones, Olbermann, Maher, et al, as news sources--they're not.

I mean, they SWORE for two and a half years that Trump was ABSOLUTELY a Russian agent. So how can you ever again trust "reporters" who did that?

Provide quotations that substantiate this charge. Raising the question of whether Trump could be beholden to Russia is not the same thing AND can be reasonably asked on the basis of many actions and statements of Trump's.

When vice-president Joe Biden wasn't perving around groping women and sniffing their hair, he was doing his bit to advance fascism on the world stage. During this period his son burned a BUNCH of crack cocaine and made millions of dollars trading on his father's name. All of that was "crazy conspiracy talk" when Alex Jones reported on it in real time, but now it seems that the truth about the Bidens' lurid past is about to go mainstream. Even NPR is starting to report on Creepy Joe and his boy. The piece below was on their Morning Edition show today. Surprised the hell out of me. NPR (National Public Radio) is the US government's primary propagandizing instrument:

So Biden, who has NEVER been accused of sexual assault, is a perv, "Creepy Joe," while the man in the WH, accused upwards of 20 times, is clean as a whistle? What's up with that?

'New Yorker' Examines Hunter Biden's Business And Personal Struggles
npr.org/2019/0701/737535435/new-yorker ... -struggles
So NPR is now, delinquently, reporting what Alex Jones reported as it happened.

How can this be? The New Yorker, NPR, are trusted sources of information for you? Totally inconsistent.

I'm sitting down with a cup of coffee to read this entire thread and see what all the fuss is about...

I'm still reading but I want to add a quick comment here. Alex Jones would be banned from BookTalk.org too.

KS wrote:So when did Alex Jones say that nobody died at the Sandy Hook school shooting?

Alex stated that event was a hoax many times, that staging and actors were involved, i.e. nobody died. But he went far beyond that, even helping people harass the parents of those victims. Alex Jones now blames those beliefs on a form a psychosis.

Conspiracy theorist Alex Jones blamed the various claims he’s made over the years, including that the 2012 Sandy Hook Elementary School massacre was a hoax, on “psychosis,” according to a deposition the “Infowars” host has given as part of a Texas lawsuit. Jones described his conspiracy thinking as a kind of mental disorder during the deposition taken earlier this month for the lawsuit filed against him by the family of a 6-year-old who was among the 20 children and six adults killed in the Newtown, Connecticut, attack, the Austin American-Statesman reported.

Jones said during the deposition that he “almost had like a form of psychosis back in the past where I basically thought everything was staged, even though I’m now learning a lot of times things aren’t staged.” Jones blamed his mental state on “the trauma of the media and the corporations lying so much, then everything begins — you don’t trust anything anymore, kind of like a child whose parents lie to them over and over again, well, pretty soon they don’t know what reality is.”

3/29/19
https://apnews.com/d577b2fac08d40c4bf56a662a9ab04cd

Alex Jones admits to having a mental disorder where you don't know what reality is. <= Yes please, let's keep using him as a credible source.

DWill wrote:Your chart is badly outdated. It also is more meaningful to look at independent ratings of media bias or polls in which respondents rate the bias of news sources.

Pew seems like a good source, but if they based it on perceptions, it has weaknesses. I was amused by placement of the Economist on the left, with the Washington Post. I'm sure in general Americans don't know what to make of the Economist, with its appreciation for the National Health Service and of regulation of business, not to mention its insistence that global warming is real and science is worth listening to, or its insistence on denouncing human rights violations, but it is far, far from liberal. It is what the Wall Street Journal once aspired to be, before signing on Arthur Laffer and the ideological support of Republican policy in the late 70s.

All of that was "crazy conspiracy talk" when Alex Jones reported on it in real time, but now it seems that the truth about the Bidens' lurid past is about to go mainstream. Even NPR is starting to report on Creepy Joe and his boy.

One of the reasons I think government censorship should be avoided like the plague is that even Alex Jones can play a role in bringing out stories that others shy away from. I am on the mailing list of a left-wing news aggregation source that sometimes veers into extremism and bizarre paranoia, and I refuse to send them any money. But they also catch onto important stories before others do, at times, because they seek out the trouble spots.

State Supreme Court to hear InfoWars appeal in Sandy Hook case
...“This is extremely good news for all who care about freedom of expression,” Pattis said. “One may disagree with Mr. Jones, in which case the remedy is not to listen to him. Silencing speech is never a good idea. While we owe sympathy to the Sandy Hook parents, their grief does not entitle them to become censors.”...
ctpost.com/local/article/State-Supreme- ... 086011.php

The Connecticut Supreme Court is taking over the Alex Jones / Sandy Hook case. That almost never happens, but the lower courts are futzing around with the First Amendment and freedom of speech here. Cases have an almost guaranteed path to the US Supreme Court once they come out of a state's supreme court, so eventually the landmark case reaffirming freedom of speech in America may have Alex Jones' name on it. Excellent.

Meanwhile, in Britain last week, they locked up a man whose crime was "contempt of court." Tommy Robinson. He reported on a "grooming" trial of Pakistani Muslims. They were grooming British girls to become child sex slaves, and Robinson reported on the case. He was cautioned by the court not to do it again (the British have no Bill of Rights that protects freedom of speech), so when he did it again he was cited for contempt. Then they locked him up, which is unprecedented. Contempt charges have always been dealt with through fines. Nobody can find a record of an actual incarceration for the offense. The British government is intent on surrendering Britain to Islam. Robinson's an impediment to that goal, so he was sent to prison, where he will likely be killed by the majority Muslim population. On the bright side, his case has opened a lot of eyes.

Far-Right Activist Tommy Robinson Jailed for Nine Months at Old Bailey
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ERmH0AL0yU



These assaults against freedom of speech are intended to bring down western civilization. The American Bill of Rights in particular is problematic for the tyrannical-minded globalists. The Bill of Rights reminds us that we are born with unlimited rights, which government cannot take away except through due process, and it then enumerates some of the rights we have. First listed is freedom of thought (speech, worship, assembly and so on). Also, we are reminded that our rights are God-given. So that's one of the reasons why we've seen such an assault on religion; God must be removed from America's thinking so that we will no longer fully appreciate our governing documents.

At any rate, there was good news on the Jones case this week, and Britain was galvanized by the Robinson injustice.

A video that Alex Jones recently featured on his show:
The END GAME: WHY the WEST is LOST
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cPembXZMKv0