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Trump is not a joke

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DWill

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Re: Trump is not a joke

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DB Roy wrote: I have a feeling that by the time he leaves office, whenever that might be, everyone will be happy to see him go.
Overjoyed, more than likely. Yes, you were wrong about Trump just as I was, but at least you did say he needed to be taken seriously.

But (I can hear the objectors saying to me), you're not even giving Trump a chance to succeed! You're just doing to him what you objected to when, in 2012, the Republicans said they'd block anything Obama tried to accomplish. The point is that most of the plans he has put forth should be rejected out of hand, should not ever see the light of day. But as DB has said, the hope--if that is the word--here is Trump's own scattershot and ad hoc approach to governing, at which he is more inexperienced than a small-town mayor. He simply will now let pragmatism take over in many cases, dropping many ambitions that were just poses anyway, although he'll select a few pet causes with harmful potential.

A pundit description of Trump during the campaign that I like compares him to a second-rate jazz musician, improvising according to the stimulus in front of him. He has even said that he focused on keeping the light on the cameras glowing red, indicating that his words were going right to the cable news feed. All publicity is good publicity. Now that he is pres-elect, even his supporters, I think, will demand more coherence and consistency from him. Can he deliver?

I find it puzzling and exasperating that Trump has so little respect for the office of the presidency that he would not think it necessary to divest himself as much as possible of conflicts of interest. Already he has done very disturbing things that presage a deluge of crony capitalism. It is that corruption that many writers are warning could cost him his office in relatively short order. He seems blithely unaware of the dangers to himself and the country.
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Re: Trump is not a joke

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DWill wrote: Overjoyed, more than likely. Yes, you were wrong about Trump just as I was, but at least you did say he needed to be taken seriously.

But (I can hear the objectors saying to me), you're not even giving Trump a chance to succeed! You're just doing to him what you objected to when, in 2012, the Republicans said they'd block anything Obama tried to accomplish. The point is that most of the plans he has put forth should be rejected out of hand, should not ever see the light of day. But as DB has said, the hope--if that is the word--here is Trump's own scattershot and ad hoc approach to governing, at which he is more inexperienced than a small-town mayor. He simply will now let pragmatism take over in many cases, dropping many ambitions that were just poses anyway, although he'll select a few pet causes with harmful potential.
I'm guessing the banks and brokerage houses will run wild and there will be hell to pay for that. I'm super worried that he is going to destroy all advances we've made in alternative energy sources and give free reign to the coal industry. But maybe not since he's now hedging on climate change. I think he's stacking the deck--he wants to bring back jobs via the coal industry but if that doesn't work then he'll say he couldn't do it because the atmosphere is too fragile to handle all the waste. But it's potentially catastrophic. I expect a lot of scandals.
A pundit description of Trump during the campaign that I like compares him to a second-rate jazz musician, improvising according to the stimulus in front of him. He has even said that he focused on keeping the light on the cameras glowing red, indicating that his words were going right to the cable news feed. All publicity is good publicity. Now that he is pres-elect, even his supporters, I think, will demand more coherence and consistency from him. Can he deliver?
Trump has no real base. He has a hodge-podge of support--racists, Christians, xenophobes, conservatives who'll believe anything as long as it comes out of the mouth of another conservative, old guard America-firsters, Hillary-haters, the unemployed, people who can't ever bring themselves to vote for democrats no matter how bad the republican candidate is, etc. They are loosely allied but focused differently and want different things from Trump. So part of this base expects him to build the wall but part of it doesn't believe he really meant it. Similarly, many expect him to jail Hillary Clinton but many don't. It's great for getting yourself elected but it's hell trying to satisfy them all once you get elected as Trump is already finding out. While the racists really want that wall built, they don't really care about Hillary as much as they hate her. The unemployed just want him to bring them jobs as he promised but don't care about promoting Christianity. Trump became many things to these many people but he can't possibly maintain that facade because now he has to prove it. He bit off WAY more than he can chew. It's hard to say what will happen once the majority of his support accepts that he duped them.
I find it puzzling and exasperating that Trump has so little respect for the office of the presidency that he would not think it necessary to divest himself as much as possible of conflicts of interest. Already he has done very disturbing things that presage a deluge of crony capitalism. It is that corruption that many writers are warning could cost him his office in relatively short order. He seems blithely unaware of the dangers to himself and the country.
Sure. That will be his downfall. He's a greedy man and he just can't let go of those sources of wealth. He's using his children to smokescreen what he's doing and he'll be lucky if one of them doesn't end up in jail because of it. Already, some of his supporters are angry that his children are involved in his policy-making saying, "We elected you not them." But, as you say, he's just up there winging it and he's going to keep winging it until someone tells him he has to stop. By then, who knows what damage will have been done.
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Re: Trump is not a joke

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LanDroid wrote:
I have a feeling that by the time he leaves office, whenever that might be, everyone will be happy to see him go.
Heh, well as you say you've been wrong about everything else (as have many of us), what if you're wrong about that? Consider 8 years of Trump followed by someone in the same mold but much worse - perhaps with violent militias enforcing adherence to propaganda. Fun times ahead...
My biggest fear of Trump is that he's opened doors that should have been left sealed off--racism, xenophobia, etc.--and that, while he wouldn't get elected, they would eventually advance a candidate who was slick enough to push the same agenda and get elected. Ironically, that got short-circuited with Trump's election. Although the alt-right is celebrating now, it was the worst thing that could have happened for them. They thrive on having a president they hate, that they can demonize, they do their best recruitment then. They supported Trump, he got in, they can't complain now without making themselves look foolish. They'd have been far better off with a Hillary presidency. The alt-right will die over the next four years although a new beast will eventually emerge from the carcass.

I don't see 8 years of Trump. I can't see anyone wanting to continue his legacy after he leaves office UNLESS he turns out to be a good president. That, however, is so remote as to be laughable. The best we can hope for is that he didn't fuck everything up as badly as he could have and that might well be because he didn't finish his term.

However, I don't have much hope for America even if we clean house after Trump. We'll go right back again to rightwing agendas after a short period of progress. We LOVE these idiots!! We keep voting them back in for no reason. What was SO BAD that had to have a Trump in the White House? Nothing. There was nothing particularly wrong. Republicans have to really fuck things up to get voted out but any progressive agenda is on borrowed time as soon as it starts and will have the plug pulled on it for no reason other than to get rightwingers back into power because apparently we just love these assholes and can't live without them. So after Trump,Ii see a period of progress that will be quickly overturned for no reason and rightwing regressive policies will be re-enshrined. I thought after 2012 that the non-white population was large enough to finally destroy the stupidity of white people at the polls but I now realize that they will sit idly by and watch whites wreck the system again and again and just shrug as if it doesn't matter. Others will take to the streets and act like idiots. I have no faith in them either.
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Re: Trump is not a joke

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I have just returned from my first ever visit to the USA. Now, I admit it was a visit to the Deep South, so I hope it doesn't reflect the rest of America, but although I thoroughly enjoyed myself, and honestly didn't feel as though I was abroad at all, I was shocked and upset by the segregation and discrimination of the black peoples. I don't think it will improve with Trump as president. Unfortunately, this situation will effect the whole world. History repeats itself. It's like when Hitler got into power in Germany but more influential. Aren't we living in interesting times? Love you my USA friends. It can happen anywhere when people get scared and blame a certain set of people for the unfairness. It's just that your Country is so big and powerful.
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Penelope: Having grown up on the western verge of the "Deep South," (semi-rira; east Texas), I understand your point of view. I can easily remember the days of "While" and "Colored" restrooms, drinking fountains, and even waiting rooms at the railway station. Things have changed, and are changing. But yes, prejudice still exists and probably will as long as various groups feel the need to "be superior" to another. I could go on for a long time, but I won't bore you. I am glad you enjoyed your visit and wish I could reciprocate and visit the U.K. Maybe someday.
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Re: Trump is not a joke

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I wanted to bump this thread back to life also:

After two plus years we’ve witnessed the jokes and horror that is president shit for brains. I am especially depressed by a loaded Supreme Court, and the attack on women from states like analbama and their new law banning a woman’s control of her own body.
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Trump supporters have blinders on. 53% of white women should have known they had no business voting for Trump but they did it anyway. Maybe the dems might have scooped 3% of that demographic to their side but 50% of white women will vote for him again. Kentucky shouldn't re-elect Mitch McConnell but they will. You know they will despite the fact that McConnell wants to end the types of programs the average Kentucky voter needs to survive, it doesn't matter. They consistently vote against their own interests. The candidates don't even have to lie. "I'm going to take away your social security."

"Uhhh...okay, I guess."

Then a quarter of those may wake up when they suddenly have nothing to live on but by then it's a crisis situation and it's too damn late.

The dems have to concentrate on getting the apathetic ones off their asses and voting blue. Those 100 million who sat it out--the dems have to get them--that's their only hope. Trouble is, I know a guy who abstained and he's conservative and he would NEVER vote for the dems--never. So it might be better that that 100 million doesn't vote. I don't know what to tell you.

Quite frankly, women should have been a LOT more active and vocal in this thing than they have been. They were silent when they could least afford to be and now Roe v. Wade sits on the brink of being overturned and NOW they're mad. Once again, if you wait until it's a crisis, you waited too damn long. Oh, if Roe v. Wade gets overturned, I think the republicans will pay heavily for it in 2020 but it doesn't matter. The justices have these positions for life and it will be many years--decades--before Roe v. Wade will be reinstated if it ever gets reinstated.

As Ben Franklin said, the price of freedom is eternal vigilance. You can't go to sleep and you can't stay in the background if you have an iron in the fire. While the women were busy standing by their men, their men took their rights away.

I'm hopeful that a federal court will strike down these abortion laws and it doesn't get to the SCOTUS level of if it does then SCOTUS will strike it down. But when you let it get that far out of your grasp, you can't blame anyone but yourself.
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DWill

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I'd like to hear where you stand on impeachment. Would you agree that, while impeachment is probably not advantageous politically for the Democrats, to shirk a constitutional duty will end up eviscerating the party?
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I do not think that the Democrats would be shirking a constitutional duty by not pushing hard for impeachment, I think that slow playing impeachment is the pragmatic approach. I think that first and foremost they should govern. At this stage of the current executive regime Tump his his own worst enemy, He has already backed himself away from Alabama’s abortion ban. The national party is still petrified by their very own actions, they are like old men sliding slowly into a hot bath. The loaded courts and the GOP will push back only enough on states like Alabama and their ban if it will maintain their power.
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I like that word eviscerate. I do not think that the Dems would suffer so much that there is a risk to 2020. I think that there is so much on the table right now that impeachment is but one dish. I say serve up prime rib and let Trump dole out McDonald’s.
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