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Is anyone else completely torn about who they want to be the next US President? 
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Post Re: Is anyone else completely torn about who they want to be the next US President?
My dear BookTalk friends,
I believe I have come to the end of any contribution I could make to this thread. I want to finish with what I learned this morning. I watched the History channel and the topic was our Revolution 1776-1779? General Washington had to deal with the adversaries of: General Green, General Arnold, an untrained militia, a "government" that would not or could not provide military support of food, clothing, materials and money, and who bickered about his ability to lead the Continental Army, and an enemy who was composed of men who were trained and experienced in warfare, and generals who had the full support of their government.
I believe I am not equipped in spirit, motivation, or character to make the sacrifices General Washington and the many others of the Continental Congress made and, offered to make with their personal dedication to the cause they believed in.

But what I learned with penetrating retention is: If we believe a goal is worth pursuing, our methods of achieving it just, our reasoning sound in our opinion, we can only persevere in our cause and trust that if there is a power of the universe, it is leading and guiding our effort to accomplish it to achieve the end it has for humanity.

Happy 4th of July, LAWRENCE



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Post Re: Is anyone else completely torn about who they want to be the next US President?
LanDroid wrote:
This information from fivethirtyeight.com (poll analysis experts) MIGHT calm some folks down. Or not.
Donald Trump Has A 20 Percent Chance Of Becoming President. However, this Doesn’t Mean Clinton Is A Sure Thing.

From June 30 (above) to today, 538.com has Trump's chances of winning increasing from 20% to 34%. :shock: :P



Thu Jul 14, 2016 1:11 pm
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Post Re: Is anyone else completely torn about who they want to be the next US President?
What Cost Honor?

Phillip Jennings is an investment banker and entrepreneur, former Marine Corps Captain who flew missions� in Vietnam and, after leaving the Marine Corps, flew for Air America in Laos. He won the Pirate’s Alley Faulkner Society short fiction award in 1998. He has a degree in business administration and is the CEO of Mayfair Capital Partners. He is the author of two novels and one non-fiction book.

He authored the following article which appeared in the May 26, 2016 edition of USA Today. It is short and contributes to the discussion in this thread.

Secretary without honor

When I hear people say Clinton emails don't matter, I remember a young Marine captain who owned up to his career-ruining mistake.

Apologists for Hillary Clinton’s alleged criminal mishandling of classified documents say that it doesn’t matter, that she really did nothing wrong, or nothing significant. But the real question is not so much what she did as how she has responded to being found out.

Once during the mid-1960s when I was on active duty in the Marine Corps, I was the air liaison officer for a battalion of Marines aboard 11 ships in the Mediterranean. As the air officer and a senior captain, I had a rotating responsibility for the nuclear code book, kept in the safe in the operations room of the lead amphibious squadron command ship. I shared that duty with another captain, a squared away young man, liked by all he commanded and the son of a very high-ranking Marine.

On the day our ships were leaving the Mediterranean, we met the new amphibious squadron near Gibraltar and made preparations to transfer security codes and other sensitive material to the incoming Marine battalion. The young captain was on duty and went to the operations office to pick up the code book. He was alone in the office. He removed the code book and placed it on the desk while closing the safe. In a rushed moment, he stepped across the passageway to retrieve something he needed from his quarters. Seconds later, he stepped back into the operations office and found the operations sergeant having just entered, looking down at the code book.

Against all regulations, the code book had been out of the safe and unattended. It mattered not that it was unattended for only seconds, that the ship was 5 miles at sea, or that it was certain no one unauthorized had seen the code. The captain could have explained this to the operations sergeant. He could have told the sergeant that he “would take care of it.” He could have hinted that his high-ranking dad could smooth it over.

But the Marine Corps’ values are honor, courage and commitment. Honor is the bedrock of our character. The young captain could not ask the sergeant to betray his duty to report the infraction, no matter how small. Instead, the captain simply said, “Let’s go see the colonel.”

That captain had wanted to be a Marine officer all of his life. It was the only career he ever wanted. When he reported the incident to the colonel, he knew he was jeopardizing his life’s dream. But he did it.

The results went by the book. The amphibious squadron stood down. Military couriers flew in from NATO. The codes were changed all over Europe. The battalion was a day late in leaving the Mediterranean. The captain, Leonard F. Chapman III, received a letter of reprimand, damaging his career. He stayed in the corps and died in a tragic accident aboard another ship.

I saw some heroic acts in combat in Vietnam, things that made me proud to be an American and a Marine. But that young captain stood for what makes our corps and our country great.

Clinton is the antithesis of that young captain, someone with no honor, little courage and commitment only to her endless ambition. This has nothing to do with gender, party affiliation, ideology or policy. It is a question of character — not just hers, but ours. Electing Clinton would mean abandoning holding people accountable for grievous errors of integrity and responsibility. What we already know about her security infractions should disqualify her for any government position that deals in information critical to mission success, domestic or foreign. But beyond that, her responses to being found out — dismissing its importance, claiming ignorance, blaming others — indict her beyond anything the investigation can reveal. Those elements reveal her character. And the saddest thing is that so many in America seem not to care.
(or know what the problem is. This article is not about Mrs. Clinton, it is about the character of the American People. L)



Mon Jul 18, 2016 9:52 am
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Post Re: Is anyone else completely torn about who they want to be the next US President?
Lawrence wrote:
What Cost Honor?
Apologists for Hillary Clinton’s alleged criminal mishandling of classified documents say that it doesn’t matter, that she really did nothing wrong, or nothing significant. But the real question is not so much what she did as how she has responded to being found out.

I applaud the commitment to honor in the story related here, and agree it is fundamental to our system. I deplore the short-cut mentality shown by Clinton's use of a private email server, (while noting that no one has investigated Rice or Powell for similar use) and the lack of honor shown by her responses to questions about it.

However, I would support her even if her opponent was an honorable person like John Kasich, rather than the antithesis of honor that is Donald Trump. This is partly political, but it is also a certain familiarity with the hall of mirrors that is American power politics, familiar both from years of following the news and from a fairly brief employment within the government.

In the environment created by insider politics, K Street lobbying, Faux News, talk radio, and all the rest, perceptions matter far more than the actual facts. And I think Hillary, and even Bill, have negotiated that environment with an actual commitment to good government even though they have compromised principle right and left.

A simple example of what I am talking about is shown by the contrast between the "Willie Horton" episode and the "Sister Souljah" episode. The first was a cynical move in complete disregard for perspective, spotlighting a more-or-less random outcome of a common practice and presenting it as an illustration of "liberal" views and their supposed disregard for the true nature of criminals, not to mention exploiting racism. The second was a truthful dissent from a view on the fringe of race relations, calculating in its awareness that this would position Bill C. in the center as well as appealing to more subtle racists, but not cynical in taking a fundamentally dishonest position to do so.

The difference between calculating and cynical may not seem important to you, but to me it is the difference between competent response to a complex environment replete with choices between two evils, and betrayal of the fragile social structures which enable us to govern ourselves in such an environment.

The best, in other words, is often the enemy of the good. Feel free to deplore the myriad ways Washington compromises honor, but if you cannot distinguish between Hillary's fudging and Donald's complete rejection of accountability for truth, I am more worried about you than I am about the status of honor in American society.



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Tue Jul 19, 2016 5:49 am
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Post Re: Is anyone else completely torn about who they want to be the next US President?
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The best, in other words, is often the enemy of the good. Feel free to deplore the myriad ways Washington compromises honor, but if you cannot distinguish between Hillary's fudging and Donald's complete rejection of accountability for truth, I am more worried about you than I am about the status of honor in American society.


Your disrespect of my ability to discern the moral morass of our two presidential candidates has eaten on my ego. This thread is about the question, " is anyone else torn about who they want to be the next US pres. I thought my article on morality as it applied to Clinton explained why the email server was a moral issue. I did, and do not, believe, I am responsible for exploring both candidates on each and every failure on their part to define a moral principle that I believe they are obligated to honor. Your statement that "Donald's complete rejection of accountability for truth," is your opinion, which might be accurate but is little more than the railing blabber of his supporters."

So there too.



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Tue Jul 26, 2016 12:40 pm
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Post Re: Is anyone else completely torn about who they want to be the next US President?
Now that we have the two; Hillary or Trump.... it becomes for me less of a dilemma. I look forward to witnessing Hillary destroy Trump in the debates. Trump will be exposed for the retardation he has perpetrated on his very own mind.



Fri Jul 29, 2016 8:00 pm
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Post Re: Is anyone else completely torn about who they want to be the next US President?
Either that, or Trump will win by spreading an overwhelming fear of post-menopausal psychological symptoms and urinary incontinence.

"I will tell you one thing - it's disgusting and I can't talk about it."


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Post Re: Is anyone else completely torn about who they want to be the next US President?
I am no longer torn. Hillary is a worse war hawk than Trump. She feels that she is above the law. She operates in secrecy. Congress won't be able to find out what she's up to. The atrocities she has committed around the world as Secy. of State make her a very DANGEROUS candidate. A wary congress can keep Trump in check. I've decided to vote my conscience. I've going for Jill Stein, though I wouldn't mind if Ron Johnson won either.



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Post Re: Is anyone else completely torn about who they want to be the next US President?
I am too. Even though I'm too young to vote, I still believe that the end of this election is like picking the lesser of two evils.



Thu Aug 18, 2016 8:04 pm
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Post Re: Is anyone else completely torn about who they want to be the next US President?
the fact that anybody is even considering NOT voting against Donald Trump makes me very sad.

This guy is literally a Hitler in the making.


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In the absence of God, I found Man.
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Have you tried that? Looking for answers?
Or have you been content to be terrified of a thing you know nothing about?

Are you pushing your own short comings on us and safely hating them from a distance?

Is this the virtue of faith? To never change your mind: especially when you should?

Young Earth Creationists take offense at the idea that we have a common heritage with other animals. Why is being the descendant of a mud golem any better?

Confidence being an expectation built on past experience, evidence and extrapolation to the future. Faith being an expectation held in defiance of past experience and evidence.


Sat Aug 20, 2016 2:31 pm
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Post Re: Is anyone else completely torn about who they want to be the next US President?
I thought I’d bring this thread back to life and ask if anyone’s fears about Trump and the GOP have come to fruition. All mine have.



Sat May 18, 2019 6:14 am
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Post Re: Is anyone else completely torn about who they want to be the next US President?
I brought this thread back to the top with Chris in mind: I like Chris, I have spent time with him and his brother. I know that they have shared conservative ideas and I have been curious as to how Chris’s anxiety towards 2016 have played out. My anxiety over President Shit for Brains has been consuming, Add to him/it, McConnell and Graham and the rest of the GOP social Darwinist, It is no wonder I’ve been relatively absent from the boards. I find myself out in the public talking to anyone who will listen about the destruction happening before our eyes. I’m not extreme when involved in this endeavor, quite calm actually but I have used Booktalk.org to vent. My sincere apologies for occasional vulgarities.



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Post Re: Is anyone else completely torn about who they want to be the next US President?
I am excited about Elizabeth Warren. Really excited about her ideas for education. and reducing student debt. It is absolutely a necessary conversation. I wish AOC was running and was already the prez actually :D



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Fri May 31, 2019 1:54 am
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Post Re: Is anyone else completely torn about who they want to be the next US President?
ellisacoy wrote:
I am excited about Elizabeth Warren. Really excited about her ideas

I have quite literally never seen any candidate with ideas showing so much understanding. She went after the Big Tech companies before the press began sniffing around the anti-trust aspects of their monopoly positions. She was the first to go after abusive consumer lending in a serious way, and has good ideas to follow up what she brought in during the Obama years. She is not afraid to point out the obvious intelligence of a wealth tax, or to run on ideas rather than on appeal to donors. On pure, straight-up policy grasp, she leaves the others in the dust.

On the other hand, I'm not sure I will support her in the primaries. Some of her views risk alienating the center and losing the grasp the Democrats have on "the sanity vote". On Medical Care, for example, she may be right, but she is too far left for much of the country, just now getting its head around the Pre-Existing Condition problem. And then, of course, there is the charisma gap.

There was a marvelous satire some decades back in which characteristic parts of 10 different candidates were snipped out and spliced together, Frankenstein style, to make the ideal candidate. It was Mad Magazine who did the snipping, and the result was Alfred E. Neuman. Nevertheless, even given the warning, I wish we could have someone with Bernie's fire (but not his grumpiness), Warren's intelligence (but not her wonkish personality), Mayor Pete's wit (but straight - I know, it makes no difference, especially when the Culture Warriors have accepted the Satyr of Babylon, except that it would matter to some votes), Beto's charisma of sincerity (but with more experience in governing), Biden's ability to connect with working folks (but not his reactive approach to policy), Kamala Harris' knack for hard-hitting rhetoric (but with more of a sense of the Midwest), and Jay Inslee's understanding of the critical importance of climate policy and can-do attitude (with a teensie bit of charisma). Oh, well, if wishes were horses, it would come out as a camel.



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Post Re: Is anyone else completely torn about who they want to be the next US President?
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