• In total there are 3 users online :: 1 registered, 0 hidden and 2 guests (based on users active over the past 60 minutes)
    Most users ever online was 616 on Thu Jan 18, 2024 7:47 pm

The Coup against Donald Trump

A forum dedicated to friendly and civil conversations about domestic and global politics, history, and present-day events.
Forum rules
Do not promote books in this forum. Instead, promote your books in either Authors: Tell us about your FICTION book! or Authors: Tell us about your NON-FICTION book!.

All other Community Rules apply in this and all other forums.
User avatar
Robert Tulip

2B - MOD & SILVER
BookTalk.org Hall of Fame
Posts: 6497
Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2005 9:16 pm
18
Location: Canberra
Has thanked: 2717 times
Been thanked: 2659 times
Contact:
Australia

Re: The Coup against Donald Trump

Unread post

vizitelly wrote:I don't think the Labour party is dominated by anti-Semitic voices; right-wing propaganda would have you believe that is the case, but it is not. The Labour Party is supportive of a two-state solution in Palestine, and Israel, supported by Trump's administration opposes that, so the position remains as it has always been - Zionists Israel demands territorial gains in the name of security. It follows that the best way to gain traction for that internationally is to describe anybody who refutes those demands as anti-Semitic. The battle is what it always has been and always will be - Left against Right.
Fair enough, 'dominated' is too strong a term, as evidenced by https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chakrabarti_Inquiry

But I still think the general point holds that anti-Semitism these days is stronger on the political left than on the political right.
KindaSkolarly

1E - BANNED
Doctorate
Posts: 512
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2017 3:53 pm
6
Location: Texas
Has thanked: 16 times
Been thanked: 104 times

Re: The Coup against Donald Trump

Unread post

The Mueller 'investigation' wasn't an investigation at all; it was a smokescreen designed to cover the Obama administration's illegal activities until Trump resigned. But Trump has more backbone than calculated, and now that the smoke has cleared we'll begin to see some reports about TRUE investigations that have been going on. One concerning James Comey is due out in a week or two. And the Inspector General will release one in May or June. Both reports will contain criminal referrals. This is why snakes like Bob Woodward (CIA) are acting so girly all of a sudden. He rode the anti-Trump bandwagon up to this bump in the road, but now he's jumped off and is walking away as fast as he can. Snakes John Brennan and James Clapper are squirming...all of Washington is. Obama ordered the FBI to begin illegal spying on Americans years ago, and that spying extended to the Trump campaign. Obama never thought he'd get caught, and if he did, well, President Hillary would pardon him. It is so, so sweet to see the plans gang awry. The wee beasties are cowering now.

Wee, sleekit, cowrin, tim'rous beastie,
O, what a pannic's in thy breastie!
(Robert Burns)

'Bombshell' report on James Comey coming in two weeks, Joe diGenova says
washingtonexaminer.com/news/bombshell-r ... enova-says

Image
vizitelly
Finally Comfortable
Posts: 53
Joined: Mon Nov 26, 2018 7:13 am
5
Has thanked: 38 times
Been thanked: 32 times

Re: The Coup against Donald Trump

Unread post

Fair enough, 'dominated' is too strong a term, as evidenced by https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chakrabarti_Inquiry

But I still think the general point holds that anti-Semitism these days is stronger on the political left than on the political right


I don't quite follow - on what basis do you think that point holds ? There isn't any solid evidence that I have seen that supports that view; plenty of opinion, but little evidence.
User avatar
Interbane

1G - SILVER CONTRIBUTOR
BookTalk.org Hall of Fame
Posts: 7203
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2004 12:59 am
19
Location: Da U.P.
Has thanked: 1105 times
Been thanked: 2166 times
United States of America

Re: The Coup against Donald Trump

Unread post

KS wrote:The Mueller 'investigation' wasn't an investigation at all; it was a smokescreen designed to cover the Obama administration's illegal activities until Trump resigned. But Trump has more backbone than calculated, and now that the smoke has cleared we'll begin to see some reports about TRUE investigations that have been going on. One concerning James Comey is due out in a week or two. And the Inspector General will release one in May or June. Both reports will contain criminal referrals. This is why snakes like Bob Woodward (CIA) are acting so girly all of a sudden. He rode the anti-Trump bandwagon up to this bump in the road, but now he's jumped off and is walking away as fast as he can. Snakes John Brennan and James Clapper are squirming...all of Washington is. Obama ordered the FBI to begin illegal spying on Americans years ago, and that spying extended to the Trump campaign. Obama never thought he'd get caught, and if he did, well, President Hillary would pardon him. It is so, so sweet to see the plans gang awry. The wee beasties are cowering now.
It's interesting comparing what is really going on with what fringe websites delude people into believing. An entire worldview is constructed from half-truths and formed into a narrative that appears bulletproof from the inside. This is the same feeling I get whenever I read deep into the forums of Flat earthers or Anti-Vaxxers. From what I gather in my travel overseas, it's the same over there as well, although perhaps not as bad as the US. I have some UK friends who compare the Brexit fiasco to the US voting for Trump, for example.

We need to teach critical thinking earlier in life. Or some sort of into to philosophy and how to ground your beliefs in facts. Then again, so much of what I read appears to be emotional belief rather than rational.
In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and has been widely regarded as a bad move.” - Douglas Adams
User avatar
Robert Tulip

2B - MOD & SILVER
BookTalk.org Hall of Fame
Posts: 6497
Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2005 9:16 pm
18
Location: Canberra
Has thanked: 2717 times
Been thanked: 2659 times
Contact:
Australia

Re: The Coup against Donald Trump

Unread post

vizitelly wrote:"Fair enough, 'dominated' is too strong a term, as evidenced by https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chakrabarti_Inquiry But I still think the general point holds that anti-Semitism these days is stronger on the political left than on the political right"
I don't quite follow - on what basis do you think that point holds ? There isn't any solid evidence that I have seen that supports that view; plenty of opinion, but little evidence.
In a thread on the perplexity caused by the Trump Presidency, it seems to me that this question of trends in anti-Semitism can help to uncover some of the emotional currents at work in politics today.
Discussing anti-Semitism is obviously a fraught and sensitive topic, especially in a context where Trump has introduced overt reactionary racism into American policy through a broader support for White Nationalism.

A key theme here is political attitudes toward cultural relativism, the idea that all cultures are equal, something only supported on the left as part of political correctness. For cultural relativism, the existence of the state of Israel is obnoxious due to Israel's rejection of equality between Jews and Arabs for existential security reasons. Conservatives tend to see Israel as a beacon of modernity in a backward region of the world, while leftists focus on the assumption of cultural equality, against which Israel's security policies are unacceptable, with progressives often tending to ignore the widespread overt Arab anti-Semitism.

The problem here is that people find it impolite to discuss cultural differences. This situation then means that false assumptions fester, while efforts to address festering problems cannot gain political traction. For example Arab illiteracy seems to have roots in Islamic culture, but the taboo on cultural criticism means this major problem is little understood or discussed.

The result is that an evidence-based theory of change cannot be widely discussed, there is wide ignorance of facts, and when people look at the Middle East they jump to the simplistic conclusion of blaming Israel. Together with the growth of simplistic socialism, the result is that anti-Semitic prejudice now finds a natural home on the political left, as seen by the discomfort of Mr Corbyn in straddling the fence of contradictions that this all produces for British Labour.

That is not to ignore the problem of right wing extremism, only to note that neo-Nazism is a tiny problem by comparison to broad cultural trends that should be analysed at the level of mass opinion. My impression is that the current cultural and political trends are pushing Jews more into alliance with conservative politics, even though 71% of American Jewish voters supported Clinton in 2016.
KindaSkolarly

1E - BANNED
Doctorate
Posts: 512
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2017 3:53 pm
6
Location: Texas
Has thanked: 16 times
Been thanked: 104 times

Re: The Coup against Donald Trump

Unread post

Attorney General Barr's testimony in front of the US Senate today was like a burst of light in the Left's dark echo chamber. Now that the Russiagate hoax has been put to bed, he's going to find out how it started. He's also going to find out why Hillary Clinton was never charged with crimes for destroying subpoenaed evidence. Oh, what joy. Listening to him talk like that gave me one of the greatest endocrinological highs of my life. The truth will out. Happy day. And Barr's not going to bother with the follow-up visit to the House of Representatives tomorrow. Good for him. Washington wants to drag the Russia hoax on until the next election, but he won't be part of the show.

Clinton is in so much trouble. She violated the Espionage Act, among other things, so she's looking at the death penalty. If there were justice in the world then the entire Bush clan would be in the dock with her, but we don't have a justice system, we have a legal system. And it's about to drop its full weight on one of the worst traitors ever to work in Washington. I mean, Clinton tried to remove a president with an Intelligence Coup. It looks as if Barr is going to make examples of the worst of the worst of the criminals, and that's good. We need to do everything possible to make sure that nobody tries another such coup in the future.

Such a good day for the truth.

Image
vizitelly
Finally Comfortable
Posts: 53
Joined: Mon Nov 26, 2018 7:13 am
5
Has thanked: 38 times
Been thanked: 32 times

Re: The Coup against Donald Trump

Unread post

I'm not convinced by the idea of cultural relativism, it seems like a side path to a blind alley. The post-war position concerning Palestine, and the setting up of the Israeli state, has its roots in both the practical support Palestine gave to fleeing Nazis - support and succour in the first instance and, in the second instance, the arrangement of transport to Argentina - and in the international guilt following the Holocaust. That knowledge alone makes the situation intractable, which is why most countries are in favour of a two-state solution. It seems that what Trump has done is pour petrol on the embers and is now busy fanning the flames of Islamophobia because he believes that Islam equates to anti-Semitism.
User avatar
Taylor

1F - BRONZE CONTRIBUTOR
Awesome
Posts: 959
Joined: Sun Dec 06, 2009 7:39 pm
14
Location: Florida
Has thanked: 422 times
Been thanked: 589 times

Re: The Coup against Donald Trump

Unread post

It seems to me that the “Boycott,Divestment and Sanctions movement” has more to do with this false premise of the left being the new frontier of antisemitism than Holocaust guilt or UK Labor Politics. Simply put, The Free Market Fundy’s have figured out that by declaring any criticism of Israeli Policy towards the Palestinian issue to be pure and simple antisemitism. It is the Freemarket Fundy’s version of political correctness.

It was right wingers chanting in Charlotte “Jews will not replace us” . It was not left wingers. There is no doubt about Arab antisemitism or even anti Zion demagoguery and it seems to me that those sentiments are to some degree, valued. I have not seen the case made though, that those sentiments are little if any valued by the American left.

As I pointed out earlier, we are all capitalists, the left cannot afford and I would add would not condone the overt economic social darwininism that is the driving force of the right wing free-market fundamentalist.
User avatar
Robert Tulip

2B - MOD & SILVER
BookTalk.org Hall of Fame
Posts: 6497
Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2005 9:16 pm
18
Location: Canberra
Has thanked: 2717 times
Been thanked: 2659 times
Contact:
Australia

Re: The Coup against Donald Trump

Unread post

vizitelly wrote:I'm not convinced by the idea of cultural relativism, it seems like a side path to a blind alley.
It is useful to explore cultural relativism in relation to anti-Semitism further as a way to help explain the Trump phenomenon. Right wing voters elected Trump partly in reaction to the emergence of the ‘snowflake generation’ who seem to be constructing a fantasy world. The unfortunate result of this return to the dream of American exceptionalism is that the right wingers have produced their own fantasy with the reactionary Frankenstein in the form of President 45.

The need is to find a return to a sensible centre, in which people can celebrate success (conservative) while also having compassion for failure (progressive).

Cultural relativism, the belief that all different cultures are morally equal, has contributed to progressive politics through its roots in anthropological rejection of western cultural dominance. Some elements of cultural relativism are essential, as a way of expressing respect for non-western traditions. However, looking at American politics it seems Obama’s leftward tilt opened the space for reaction, and the result was that Trump won first the nomination and then the election by an astute pitch to the US heartland with a rejection of Obama’s legacy.

Far from being a ‘blind alley’, analysis of cultural relativism opens the problem of the nature of American patriotism. The reactionary view is that relativism expresses a widespread left wing disloyalty to the national interest.
vizitelly wrote: The post-war position concerning Palestine, and the setting up of the Israeli state, has its roots in both the practical support Palestine gave to fleeing Nazis - support and succour in the first instance and, in the second instance, the arrangement of transport to Argentina - and in the international guilt following the Holocaust. That knowledge alone makes the situation intractable, which is why most countries are in favour of a two-state solution.
I have tried to find information on Palestinians helping Nazis escape but have not found any, which surprised me as it would be a useful piece of Zionist propaganda if true. Do you have a reference?

Discussion around solutions to the Palestinian problem is far more complex than any determinism from past situations. The intractable dilemma is that Israel has the strength and friends and stability to continue to grow, while its Islamic neighbours are a mess, but this creates a dangerous arrogance on the part of Israeli settlers.
vizitelly wrote:It seems that what Trump has done is pour petrol on the embers and is now busy fanning the flames of Islamophobia because he believes that Islam equates to anti-Semitism.
The anti-Semitism that pervades the Islamic world (the Ummah) is just a part of Trump’s reasons to dislike Islam. Fear of Islam derives from the fact that the biggest terrorist outrages over the last decade have all been perpetrated by Sunni Muslims, the view that Sharia is a dangerous, intolerant, ignorant and backward belief system, that the Islamic union of church and state seems to enable dictatorships, and generally that Islam appears to be a brake on economic and social progress.

Regarding the BDS movement and anti-Semitism, two informative Wikipedia pages are https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boycott,_ ... tisemitism and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_antisemitism
KindaSkolarly

1E - BANNED
Doctorate
Posts: 512
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2017 3:53 pm
6
Location: Texas
Has thanked: 16 times
Been thanked: 104 times

Re: The Coup against Donald Trump

Unread post

Image

It looks as if Attorney General Barr is serious about investigating whether the Russiagate probe was legal. It wasn't, of course. It was part of the ongoing coup against President Trump:

Barr assigns US attorney in Connecticut to look into government surveillance involving Trump campaign
infowars.com/barr-assigns-us-attorney-i ... gn-source/

The Greatest Political Scandal in U.S. History
youtube.com/watch?v=GiM0IN2GpqU&fea ... e=youtu.be

One terrible result of the coup against Trump is the current makeup of his Cabinet. The Deep State rejected his early, patriotic nominees, and as a result he eventually had nowhere to turn but to people like John Bolton and Mike Pompeo. Bolton is currently Trump's National Security Advisor and Pompeo is our Secretary of State. Both men are entrenched old Washington hawks, neo-cons of the Bush stripe, and both are currently busy trying to foment new wars around the world. They want us at war with N. Korea, Venezuela and Iran. This is all to the liking of the Democrats of course (the War Party). America is very, very close to war with Iran right now, but Americans don't know it because our leftist media is distracting us with stories about transgenderism and such.

I hope Trump is aware of what's going on with the push to war. He might be. Obama's Secretary of State John Kerry is still doing shuttle diplomacy, and the other day Trump called for him to be prosecuted under the Logan Act.

Marco Rubio calls on Barr to investigate John Kerry

...Trump said earlier this month that he would like to see the 75-year-old Kerry investigated. The Logan Act forbids unauthorized people from negotiating with foreign governments.

“What I would like to see with Iran, I would like to see them call me. John Kerry, he speaks to them a lot. John Kerry tells them not to call. That is a violation of the Logan Act. And frankly, he should be prosecuted on that,” Trump said....


washingtonexaminer.com/news/marco-rubio ... john-kerry

The ongoing coup against Trump is on the verge of spilling over the borders of the U.S. and triggering World War 3. I suppose America deserves to suffer for allowing crypto-Muslim Obama and his Marxist entourage to gum up American politics, but the rest of the world shouldn't be punished. I wish the weak-minded leftist rabble in America would wake up and stop doing the goosestep two-step for their America-hating leaders. Then perhaps Trump could help stabilize the world with the fair trade practices he's trying to implement. Like with Russia, for example. Putin is eager to get on with business:

It's time to restore US-Russia ties, Putin tells Pompeo

“As you know, just a few days ago, I had the pleasure of talking with the US president on the phone,” Putin told Pompeo on Tuesday, as the two met in Sochi. “I got the impression that the [US] president was inclined to re-establish Russian-American relations and contacts to resolve together the issues that are of mutual interest to us.”

“For our part, we have more than once said that we would also like to fully restore relations, and we hope that now the conditions for that have been met,” Putin added.


rt.com/news/459345-putin-says-wants-res ... e-ties-us/
Post Reply

Return to “Current Events & History”