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The Coup against Donald Trump 
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Post Re: The Coup against Donald Trump
SPYGATE

The Department of Justice's Spygate investigation will look into whether proper procedure was followed in the three-year persecution of candidate and then president Donald Trump.

I expect the FISA warrants will be the center of focus. Were they obtained properly? Did people lie in order to get warrants to spy on the Trump campaign? Hillary Clinton and the Democrats paid for a fictional "dossier" that was apparently the only basis for the first FISA warrant. Even before arch-traitor John McCain flew the dossier to Washington, the intelligence community KNEW that it was phony. Was the fact that it was paid for by Trump's presidential opponent made clear to the judge who issued the warrant? And in the, what, three FISA renewals, what other phony evidence was used? And who knew what when? FBI agents exchanged emails talking about how POTUS (President of the US) wanted to be kept informed. If it can be shown that Obama was directing the FBI's spying on Trump, then the magnitude of that crime will be Vesuvius compared to the pimple that was Watergate. If Hillary Clinton was involved then we'll have Krakatoa vs the zit of her pointy little head.

If people on the Left were so concerned about Trump and Russia possibly working together to subvert American institutions, then why aren't they concerned about Obama, Clinton and the FBI working together to subvert American institutions?


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Post Re: The Coup against Donald Trump
KS wrote:
If people on the Left were so concerned about Trump and Russia possibly working together to subvert American institutions, then why aren't they concerned about Obama, Clinton and the FBI working together to subvert American institutions?


It's a fact that Russia worked to subvert American institutions, even if Trump is too stupid to help. If you believe the "news" about Obama and Clinton doing the same you're deluded.


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Sat Apr 13, 2019 7:02 am
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Post Re: The Coup against Donald Trump
LanDroid wrote:
Along the lines of the folk hero, Matt Taibbi has famously stated that Trump is playing a heel act (bad guy) in World Wide Wrestling.
Watching wrestling on TV was probably my first real clue that there are more things in heaven and earth than are dreamt of in my philosophy.

LanDroid wrote:
vizitelly wrote:
I came to the conclusion that they aren't disenfranchised, but poor and know that they are exploited. Amazingly, they vote for more exploitation.

That is true for some Trump supporters. I have watched them state on camera that they voted for Trump in order to get rid of Obama-care. Somehow they were shocked when their own Obama-care plans were cancelled. They imagined only lazy bums would lose insurance, not hard working good folks like themselves!

Also, medical care is complex. The attempt to reduce everything to "the market" (= "freedom") just doesn't work for medical care. I don't think the average American realized that covering pre-existing conditions would raise the (private) cost of medical insurance even though it would lower the overall cost of the system. But currently the corporations are hellbent on persuading more and more Americans that an option of Medicare for All is the only force that will restrain their rapaciousness. Insulin prices rising far faster than any possible justification based on cost. Absurdly high deductibles being used to screen out pre-existing conditions. Pharmaceutical companies clamoring to blame the victims for the opioid crisis while also cashing in on demand for treatment. And down that road is Single-Payer, whether conservatives shout "Socialism!" at every stop or not.



Sat Apr 13, 2019 10:08 am
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Post Re: The Coup against Donald Trump
Robert Tulip wrote:
how Trump’s repetitive use of messages targets deep tribal feelings of fear and belonging to generate a powerful bond between him and his supporters.
Started reading Baldwin's "The Fire Next Time" for no good reason today, and found he has a similar ability to get around carefully constructed edifices of Reason and bring the floods and eddies of emotion to the surface. I don't think it's possible to understand White Nationalism and Anti-Semitism without having that gut feeling of "us" and "them" accessible. Not to say that Trump's victory is all about such other-ing, or his continued popularity with his base, but so much of American politics and social relations have been driven by them over the decades that I refuse to believe any narrative which omits the raw emotional power of such evil forces. Baldwin repeatedly makes the point that life in white America will continue to be about self-delusion and pretend innocence until we face what slavery and segregation did to us: what monsters it released and what complicity lurked behind myths of stability and order.

To tame that chthonic horror requires more than just Wokeness. It requires understanding in fairly gruesome detail how cooperation makes civilized society and modern affluence possible, and how giving in to fracturing Us and Them narratives not only is being used by manipulative commercial elites but destroys the foundations of prosperity.

Robert Tulip wrote:
For those who would like government policy to be more based on logic and evidence, the psychology is important. The Right Brain targets emotion and constructs myths, while the Left Brain targets reason, meaning a balanced political message requires an equal ability to speak to both parts of the brain. Going too far in either direction generates a reaction whose causes are in large part unconscious. That seems to be a big reason why Hillary Clinton lost to Donald Trump, that she and her supporters assumed the modern progressive mentality of basing policy on evidence would resonate broadly across the electorate, and did not understand how progressivism is viewed by its critics as a rival myth.
I'm not sure I am up to diving into this complexity at the moment, but armed with Baldwin's boldness I will give it a try. On one level I really, really agree with this. The Left Brain processes of legitimacy and rational order have clearly gone too far in terms of dismissing even the goals embodied in simple religion. Anyone who knows Mennonites, for example, can't help but be impressed at the power that devotion brings to human idealism. To try to reduce that to self-delusion, in favor of gaping at Game of Thrones and sneering at the Kardashians because "everyone makes their own choices" is to plunge into a self-delusion far more desperate in its soul. If we are not saved by love, we are not saved at all - reason may build the house, but it is not a home until it is inhabited by love. And as far as anyone can tell, that happens in the Right Brain, in processes deeper than anything reason has penetrated to (and can only make space for by fighting off fear).

Yet I find myself rejecting the specifics of opting simply for "balance". There is renewal happening on many fronts, from the dramatic acceleration of standards of living in Asia and Latin America to the educational progress coming from reconciliation methods and the luxury of focusing on all the students, not just the most successful ones. Reason is a mighty force, capable of solving problems that inchoate longings merely react to with frustration and eventually violence. "Yes, we can!" is the right spirit, but it has to be anchored in confidence based on understanding. The long recession, and its depredations on public services, combined with the job losses in manufacturing that have undermined small town economies and the devastation of the latest drug epidemic, have shifted a fundamental balance toward fear. However, fear isn't the only Right Brain mode.
Robert Tulip wrote:
Faith constructs a mental fortress that evidence cannot penetrate, except when facts are explained by people who are already inside the castle and share the value system of its residents. This creates difficult problems about negotiation and compromise. Giving ground to ideas that you dislike, for example with secular-minded people accepting the importance of conventional Christian faith for cultural identity, can enable conversations about other topics.
You have been sounding this note regularly, and I tend to find it appealing. The combination of people within the "fortress" explaining, and those outside dialoguing with tolerance, has made great strides. I hold out hope that it will succeed further.



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Post Re: The Coup against Donald Trump
Story published today:

FBI found Hillary Clinton’s emails in Obama White House
U.S District Court Judge Royce Lamberth ordered Obama administration senior State Department officials, lawyers, and Clinton aides, as well as Priestap, to be deposed or answer writer questions under oath. The court ruled that the Clinton email system was “one of the gravest modern offenses to government transparency.”
governmentslaves.news/2019/04/23/fbi-fo ... ite-house/

And then there's this. Talks about the origin of the Russiagate hoax:

BREAKING: Papadopuolos spills the beans on new spygate player, Arvinder Sambei…
citizenfreepress.com/breaking/papadopuo ... te-player/

And this:

‘There is going to be a grand jury and Obama folks are going to need lawyers’…
citizenfreepress.com/breaking/there-is- ... d-lawyers/

The U.S. just dodged the biggest threat to the nation since the War of Secession. A group of America-hating insiders attempted to overthrow our elected president. Our new Attorney General appears to be genuinely pissed off about what the rogue insiders did. It looks as if we might get a thorough investigation into how the phony Russiagate thing came about, and who was involved in promoting it. According to what's already on record, Obama knew early on about the 'Russians in the Trump campaign.' Such horseshit. But Obama's team is on record saying he knew about the threat, yet he didn't notify the Trump people that they might be compromised. Instead, moles were placed in the campaign. And once the moles were in place, they tried to trick Trump's people into breaking the law. Obama ignored a potential threat to the nation in order to gain political advantage.

It looks like we're going to have grand juries. If we do, Obama and Hillary Clinton are in deep, deep trouble.


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Tue Apr 23, 2019 11:01 pm
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Post Re: The Coup against Donald Trump
I suppose it will be useless to ask you to consider the quality of your source. Citizen Free Press is very far right for bias and publishes no information on its ownership or staffing. And as with other "just wait for this to break" bombshells you've alerted us to, I 'm rather certain these will be duds.



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Post Re: The Coup against Donald Trump
"rather certain"? You qualify an absolute? lol. Feeling a little unsure?

The Three Purposes of Russiagate
Paul Craig Roberts • April 22, 2019 • 1,600 Words

One is to prevent President Trump from endangering the vast budget and power of the military/security complex by normalizing relations with Russia.

Another, in the words of James Howard Kunstler, is “to conceal the criminal conduct of US government officials meddling in the 2016 election in collusion with the Hillary Clinton campaign,” by focusing all public and political attention on a hoax distraction.

The third is to obstruct Trump’s campaign and distract him from his agenda when he won the election.

Despite the inability of Mueller to find any evidence that Trump or Trump officials colluded with Russia to steal the US presidential election, and the inability of Mueller to find evidence with which to accuse Trump of obstruction of justice, Russiagate has achieved all of its purposes.

Trump has been locked into a hostile relationship with Russia. Neoconservatives have succeeded in worsening this hostile relationship by manipulating Trump into a blatant criminal attempt to overthrow in broad daylight the Venezuelan government.

Hillary’s criminal conduct and the criminal conduct of the CIA, FBI, and Obama Justice (sic) Department that resulted in a variety of felonies, including the FBI obtaining spy warrants for partisan political purposes on false pretexts from the FISA court, were swept out of sight by the Russiagate hoax.

The Mueller report was written in such a way that despite the absence of any evidence supporting any indictment of Trump, the report refused to clear Trump of obstruction and passed the buck to the Attorney General. In other words, Mueller in the absence of any evidence kept the controversy going by setting up Attorney General Barr for cover-up charges.

It is evidence of Mueller’s corruption that he does not explain just how it is possible for Trump to possibly have obstructed justice when Muller states in his report that the crime he was empowered to investigate could not be found. How does one obstruct the investigation of a crime that did not occur?

unz.com/proberts/the-three-purposes-of- ... ussiagate/


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Post Re: The Coup against Donald Trump
KindaSkolarly wrote:
It is evidence of Mueller’s corruption that he does not explain just how it is possible for Trump to possibly have obstructed justice when Muller states in his report that the crime he was empowered to investigate could not be found. How does one obstruct the investigation of a crime that did not occur?

Please substantiate this claim with a quotation from Mueller's report.



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Post Re: The Coup against Donald Trump
Suppose that a body is found, with blunt force trauma the obvious cause of death. And suppose that the police begin to investigate, find reason to think the chief of police knew the victim and had reason to fear him. And suppose further that every time they find something else suspicious, such as that the new police captain had dealings with the dead man's creditors, the chief of police directs them to investigate no further. "Take my word for it" the chief of police says, "there's nothing there. He's a good guy."

No dots get connected, and eventually the case is closed. Whoever did the deed may very well have acted on their own. But that doesn't change the fact that the chief of police has obstructed justice.



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Post Re: The Coup against Donald Trump
Harry Marks wrote:
Robert Tulip wrote:
how Trump’s repetitive use of messages targets deep tribal feelings of fear and belonging to generate a powerful bond between him and his supporters.
Started reading Baldwin's "The Fire Next Time" for no good reason today, and found he has a similar ability to get around carefully constructed edifices of Reason and bring the floods and eddies of emotion to the surface.
Thanks Harry for this mention of James Baldwin, which prompted me to look him up. I had not recently heard mention of him. Baldwin’s whole idea of philosophy from the perspective of the oppressed, expressing the impact of racism on black American identity, was central to the intellectual debates in America in the 1960s about the culture of racism. I can’t help mentioning that the title reminds me of the cosmology of zodiac ages, with the idea of a world conflagration from 2 Peter 3 https://biblehub.com/esv/2_peter/3.htm central to the transition of Ages from the old Age of Pisces to the New Age of Aquarius, and the hope that Pharaoh’s army will again get drownded.
Harry Marks wrote:
I don't think it's possible to understand White Nationalism and Anti-Semitism without having that gut feeling of "us" and "them" accessible. Not to say that Trump's victory is all about such other-ing, or his continued popularity with his base, but so much of American politics and social relations have been driven by them over the decades that I refuse to believe any narrative which omits the raw emotional power of such evil forces.
But of course with people like Kushner in Trump’s inner circle, and the strong support Trump has extended to Israel, the old Nazi association between White Nationalism and Anti-Semitism has largely broken down, with Anti-Semitism now largely the province of the anti-racist left.
Harry Marks wrote:
Baldwin repeatedly makes the point that life in white America will continue to be about self-delusion and pretend innocence until we face what slavery and segregation did to us: what monsters it released and what complicity lurked behind myths of stability and order.
There is a comparison to Australia’s genocide of the indigenous people, generating trauma among both the oppressed and the oppressors, with the ideology of justification producing a damaging denial of reality. The primary intergenerational trauma of descendants of US slaves is mirrored by a lesser trauma among descendants of slave-owners, who have a sotto voce tendency to rationalise slavery and by extension current racism. As God said in Exodus 20, God visits the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and the fourth generation.
Harry Marks wrote:
To tame that chthonic horror requires more than just Wokeness. It requires understanding in fairly gruesome detail how cooperation makes civilized society and modern affluence possible, and how giving in to fracturing Us and Them narratives not only is being used by manipulative commercial elites but destroys the foundations of prosperity.
This millennial concept of Wokeness seems rather superficial, failing to engage adequately with religious springs of motivation, but rather presenting a largely secular ideology of racial justice. I think the challenge here is to turn religious motivation against the Unwoke, observing the liberation message of forgiveness and reconciliation and love at the centre of the Gospels, and working out how this message can sustain prosperity. Because I think that is also a problem with Wokeness, in the limited exposure I have had to it, that it also destroys the foundations of prosperity.


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 Re: The Coup against Donald Trump
Mr. Tulip wrote:
But of course with people like Kushner in Trump’s inner circle, and the strong support Trump has extended to Israel, the old Nazi association between White Nationalism and Anti-Semitism has largely broken down, with Anti-Semitism now largely the province of the anti-racist left.

W...T...F...? Are you attempting to claim these torch-bearing marchers in the Unite The Right rally shouting the Nazi slogan "JEWS WILL NOT REPLACE US!" are actually left wingers? :x


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Post Re: The Coup against Donald Trump
I could never abandon this site;

Lately I have developed and idea. Capitalism is the only economic model. Venezuelan socialism is merely an ultimate expression of Capitalism, I think the same can be argued for DRNK, Russian autocrats and oligarchs. The Chi-Comms and Middle East Theocratic influenced Monarchs fit my neocapitalist category as well.

It is easily explained by understanding Free Market Fundamentalism and the neolibertarian ideal of economic social Darwinism. It is why you can have a devout Jew like Kushner aligning with his father by law and sympathetic white nationalist president shit for brains.

For these people it is all about uninhibited laissez-faire, which unequivocally trumps petty global interests such as human rights, healthcare, pollution, poverty, Justice in the courts of law... just to site some stream of consciousness examples.

There are often times on this forum, brilliant analysis of events past, present events and potential future outcomes. Booktalk.org is peopled with thoughtfulness. I try to add to that atmosphere but am hobbled by my lack of formal education. But that does not block me, I’ll keep hammering away at what I see as a disturbing global trend.

President Shit for Brains personifies that global trend, Nothing matters but the market, an unregulated market at that. Further the Free market Fundy demands that that growth expand into fewer hands. Free Market Fundies don’t discriminate on race, religion, gender, It is why President Shit for Brains can tell the American people that our enemies are our friends and that we must bill our friends for services rendered.

Free Market Fundamentalism is ass backwards, It has never, And I mean never worked. Not in the history of the World.

If the Democratic Party doesn’t get this in their thick skulls and start responding to it, If the libs don’t reconcile themselves to the true wall of economic indifference that is in our faces we will continue to slide down the side of a manure pile only to splash deeper into the cesspool mind of the likes of President Shit for Brains.

I recently reviewed my copy of Morris Bornstein’s Comparative Economic Systems and I find it fascinating that he thought that there was something to compare. Likewise with Marx. Marx thought that he was carrying Smith’s Wealth of Nations to its logical conclusion, when in reality Marx jump to the ultimate expression of Free Markrt Fundamentalism and we have been at war with ourselves ever since.

The humor for me is the idea that there has been either a deliberate or unintended ignoring of Smiths follow up to WoN, ... He followed WoN with A Theory of Moral Sentiment. His book was published four years prior to Lincoln’s Emancipation Proclamation, For American history this is the first genuine pushback at Free Market Fundamentalism and it was a bloody pushback. Think about it.


History has a queer way of being presented.( I believe there is a discussion of history education currently at Booktalk) Interestingly this pushback can be documented to Ted Roosevelt and his nephew FDR. The civil rights act and even Johnson’s Great Society, Even Nixion and the EPA , I mean truly there are many examples of a healthy pushback of Free Market Fundamentalism. But along comes a spider, Ronald Reagan.

Anyway...



Sat Apr 27, 2019 5:16 pm
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Post Re: The Coup against Donald Trump
LanDroid wrote:
Mr. Tulip wrote:
But of course with people like Kushner in Trump’s inner circle, and the strong support Trump has extended to Israel, the old Nazi association between White Nationalism and Anti-Semitism has largely broken down, with Anti-Semitism now largely the province of the anti-racist left.

W...T...F...? Are you attempting to claim these torch-bearing marchers in the Unite The Right rally shouting the Nazi slogan "JEWS WILL NOT REPLACE US!" are actually left wingers? :x

Of course not. I am just pointing out that anti-Semitism is now marginal to right wing politics, whereas on the left, there are large organisations like the British Labour Party that are dominated by anti-Semitic voices which could well take power in major states. These chanters that you mention are even marginal to White Nationalism, which is a much broader movement than its kooky anti-Semitic fringe.


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Post Re: The Coup against Donald Trump
Harry Marks wrote:
Robert Tulip wrote:
For those who would like government policy to be more based on logic and evidence, the psychology is important. The Right Brain targets emotion and constructs myths, while the Left Brain targets reason, meaning a balanced political message requires an equal ability to speak to both parts of the brain. Going too far in either direction generates a reaction whose causes are in large part unconscious. That seems to be a big reason why Hillary Clinton lost to Donald Trump, that she and her supporters assumed the modern progressive mentality of basing policy on evidence would resonate broadly across the electorate, and did not understand how progressivism is viewed by its critics as a rival myth.
I'm not sure I am up to diving into this complexity at the moment, but armed with Baldwin's boldness I will give it a try.
In mentioning Baldwin, you said “he has a similar ability [to Trump] to get around carefully constructed edifices of Reason and bring the floods and eddies of emotion to the surface.” That seems a surprising assessment of a writer devoted to uncovering the racial oppression that has governed American life. So I started reading The Fire Next Time (link) and got the impression that Baldwin’s critique uses emotion in service of reason, whereas Trump uses emotion in service of irrationality. I don’t think the rationalisations of racism in the 1960s could properly be called “carefully constructed”.
Harry Marks wrote:
On one level I really, really agree with this. The Left Brain processes of legitimacy and rational order have clearly gone too far in terms of dismissing even the goals embodied in simple religion.
Yes, I don’t see much rational analysis of religion. People use tribal thinking to govern their assumptions. Atheists believe that refutation of the scientific errors of religious claims engages with the meaning, when it just doesn’t. Believers sit in their laager and treat any allegorical interpretation as the spawn of Satan.

Mythology is a right brain emotional process, and the idea that man can live by reason alone creates an emotional vacuum that is filled by sport, movies, pop culture and demagogues. Far better to recognise that the emotional framework of Christianity presents a profound ethical analysis of the world, even though the entire Bible may be nothing but parable.
Harry Marks wrote:
Anyone who knows Mennonites, for example, can't help but be impressed at the power that devotion brings to human idealism. To try to reduce that to self-delusion, in favor of gaping at Game of Thrones and sneering at the Kardashians because "everyone makes their own choices" is to plunge into a self-delusion far more desperate in its soul.
I don’t know any Mennonites, but the general principle applies across the board, that religious mythology can create a moral framework of meaning far deeper than secular reason can deliver. The problem is that the desperate self delusion you describe within secular culture is a reaction against an equal level of quiet desperation within religious ideology, due to the long history of treating parable as fact.
Harry Marks wrote:
If we are not saved by love, we are not saved at all - reason may build the house, but it is not a home until it is inhabited by love. And as far as anyone can tell, that happens in the Right Brain, in processes deeper than anything reason has penetrated to (and can only make space for by fighting off fear).
Yes, love is entirely a right brain emotional intuition, not a left brain product of logic and evidence. That means feelings of love well up from the heart not the head, functioning as myth rather than reason.
Harry Marks wrote:
Yet I find myself rejecting the specifics of opting simply for "balance". There is renewal happening on many fronts, from the dramatic acceleration of standards of living in Asia and Latin America to the educational progress coming from reconciliation methods and the luxury of focusing on all the students, not just the most successful ones. Reason is a mighty force, capable of solving problems that inchoate longings merely react to with frustration and eventually violence.
It gets down to what you mean by balance. An emotional attitude that will not brook evidentiary critique is severely imbalanced. The balance emerges where believers accept that their poetic language has the form of parable rather than literal explanation, and where secularists equally accept that science does not satisfy the search for meaning and the cry for myth.
Harry Marks wrote:
"Yes, we can!" is the right spirit, but it has to be anchored in confidence based on understanding. The long recession, and its depredations on public services, combined with the job losses in manufacturing that have undermined small town economies and the devastation of the latest drug epidemic, have shifted a fundamental balance toward fear. However, fear isn't the only Right Brain mode.
Indeed, love emerges from the Right Brain just as much as fear does. Trump’s evil brilliance has been to exploit the visceral emotions of fear and hatred. A contest on the same emotional terrain is needed, somehow combining reason and love.

Watching the 2016 US election from afar, it seemed to me a turning point was in the debate when Trump told Clinton she should be locked up, a statement so far outside the norms of political discourse that it completely disrupted the campaign, signalling to the rednecks that at last they had a champion against the politically correct, by speaking in a purely emotional and hateful way with no rational content.
Harry Marks wrote:

Robert Tulip wrote:
Faith constructs a mental fortress that evidence cannot penetrate, except when facts are explained by people who are already inside the castle and share the value system of its residents. This creates difficult problems about negotiation and compromise. Giving ground to ideas that you dislike, for example with secular-minded people accepting the importance of conventional Christian faith for cultural identity, can enable conversations about other topics.
You have been sounding this note regularly, and I tend to find it appealing. The combination of people within the "fortress" explaining, and those outside dialoguing with tolerance, has made great strides. I hold out hope that it will succeed further.
A big part of the fear that Trump has been able to generate and exploit is that conservative people consider that progressives regard them with disdain, hence the reaction to Hillary’s ‘deplorable’ remark, with the fear of how a progressive government would change the country.

Many conservatives consider themselves to be more ethical and productive than progressives, showing the clash of worldviews. Part of the problem of politics is that the polarities come as a package deal, such that you are excluded from the tribe if you question part of the package, whether on sexuality, economics, religion, climate or other divisive issues. My interest in this analysis comes from my view that fixing climate change is the most important political problem facing the world, and that it will require constructive dialogue with conservatives.


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Last edited by Robert Tulip on Mon Apr 29, 2019 1:33 am, edited 2 times in total.



Mon Apr 29, 2019 1:15 am
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Post Re: The Coup against Donald Trump
I don't think the Labour party is dominated by anti-Semitic voices; right-wing propaganda would have you believe that is the case, but it is not. The Labour Party is supportive of a two-state solution in Palestine, and Israel, supported by Trump's administration opposes that, so the position remains as it has always been - Zionists Israel demands territorial gains in the name of security. It follows that the best way to gain traction for that internationally is to describe anybody who refutes those demands as anti-Semitic. The battle is what it always has been and always will be - Left against Right.



Tue Apr 30, 2019 10:19 am
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