Online reading group and book discussion forum
  HOME ENTER FORUMS OUR BOOKS LINKS DONATE ADVERTISE CONTACT  
View unanswered posts | View active topics It is currently Mon Apr 22, 2019 7:40 am





Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 49 posts ] • Topic evaluate: Evaluations: 0, 0.00 on the average.Evaluations: 0, 0.00 on the average.Evaluations: 0, 0.00 on the average.Evaluations: 0, 0.00 on the average.Evaluations: 0, 0.00 on the average.  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4
The Coup against Donald Trump 
Author Message
Years of membershipYears of membership
Freshman


Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 222
Location: Texas
Thanks: 8
Thanked: 71 times in 58 posts
Gender: Male
Country: United States (us)

Post Re: The Coup against Donald Trump
SPYGATE

The Department of Justice's Spygate investigation will look into whether proper procedure was followed in the three-year persecution of candidate and then president Donald Trump.

I expect the FISA warrants will be the center of focus. Were they obtained properly? Did people lie in order to get warrants to spy on the Trump campaign? Hillary Clinton and the Democrats paid for a fictional "dossier" that was apparently the only basis for the first FISA warrant. Even before arch-traitor John McCain flew the dossier to Washington, the intelligence community KNEW that it was phony. Was the fact that it was paid for by Trump's presidential opponent made clear to the judge who issued the warrant? And in the, what, three FISA renewals, what other phony evidence was used? And who knew what when? FBI agents exchanged emails talking about how POTUS (President of the US) wanted to be kept informed. If it can be shown that Obama was directing the FBI's spying on Trump, then the magnitude of that crime will be Vesuvius compared to the pimple that was Watergate. If Hillary Clinton was involved then we'll have Krakatoa vs the zit of her pointy little head.

If people on the Left were so concerned about Trump and Russia possibly working together to subvert American institutions, then why aren't they concerned about Obama, Clinton and the FBI working together to subvert American institutions?


_________________


Fri Apr 12, 2019 10:52 pm
Profile Email
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
BookTalk.org Hall of Fame

BookTalk.org Moderator
Gold Contributor

Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 7035
Location: Da U.P.
Thanks: 1065
Thanked: 2057 times in 1651 posts
Gender: Male
Country: United States (us)

Post Re: The Coup against Donald Trump
KS wrote:
If people on the Left were so concerned about Trump and Russia possibly working together to subvert American institutions, then why aren't they concerned about Obama, Clinton and the FBI working together to subvert American institutions?


It's a fact that Russia worked to subvert American institutions, even if Trump is too stupid to help. If you believe the "news" about Obama and Clinton doing the same you're deluded.


_________________
In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and has been widely regarded as a bad move.” - Douglas Adams


Sat Apr 13, 2019 7:02 am
Profile
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
No Bell Prize Winner

Book Discussion Leader

Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1293
Thanks: 1315
Thanked: 630 times in 516 posts
Gender: None specified

Post Re: The Coup against Donald Trump
LanDroid wrote:
Along the lines of the folk hero, Matt Taibbi has famously stated that Trump is playing a heel act (bad guy) in World Wide Wrestling.
Watching wrestling on TV was probably my first real clue that there are more things in heaven and earth than are dreamt of in my philosophy.

LanDroid wrote:
vizitelly wrote:
I came to the conclusion that they aren't disenfranchised, but poor and know that they are exploited. Amazingly, they vote for more exploitation.

That is true for some Trump supporters. I have watched them state on camera that they voted for Trump in order to get rid of Obama-care. Somehow they were shocked when their own Obama-care plans were cancelled. They imagined only lazy bums would lose insurance, not hard working good folks like themselves!

Also, medical care is complex. The attempt to reduce everything to "the market" (= "freedom") just doesn't work for medical care. I don't think the average American realized that covering pre-existing conditions would raise the (private) cost of medical insurance even though it would lower the overall cost of the system. But currently the corporations are hellbent on persuading more and more Americans that an option of Medicare for All is the only force that will restrain their rapaciousness. Insulin prices rising far faster than any possible justification based on cost. Absurdly high deductibles being used to screen out pre-existing conditions. Pharmaceutical companies clamoring to blame the victims for the opioid crisis while also cashing in on demand for treatment. And down that road is Single-Payer, whether conservatives shout "Socialism!" at every stop or not.



Sat Apr 13, 2019 10:08 am
Profile Email
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
No Bell Prize Winner

Book Discussion Leader

Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1293
Thanks: 1315
Thanked: 630 times in 516 posts
Gender: None specified

Post Re: The Coup against Donald Trump
Robert Tulip wrote:
how Trump’s repetitive use of messages targets deep tribal feelings of fear and belonging to generate a powerful bond between him and his supporters.
Started reading Baldwin's "The Fire Next Time" for no good reason today, and found he has a similar ability to get around carefully constructed edifices of Reason and bring the floods and eddies of emotion to the surface. I don't think it's possible to understand White Nationalism and Anti-Semitism without having that gut feeling of "us" and "them" accessible. Not to say that Trump's victory is all about such other-ing, or his continued popularity with his base, but so much of American politics and social relations have been driven by them over the decades that I refuse to believe any narrative which omits the raw emotional power of such evil forces. Baldwin repeatedly makes the point that life in white America will continue to be about self-delusion and pretend innocence until we face what slavery and segregation did to us: what monsters it released and what complicity lurked behind myths of stability and order.

To tame that chthonic horror requires more than just Wokeness. It requires understanding in fairly gruesome detail how cooperation makes civilized society and modern affluence possible, and how giving in to fracturing Us and Them narratives not only is being used by manipulative commercial elites but destroys the foundations of prosperity.

Robert Tulip wrote:
For those who would like government policy to be more based on logic and evidence, the psychology is important. The Right Brain targets emotion and constructs myths, while the Left Brain targets reason, meaning a balanced political message requires an equal ability to speak to both parts of the brain. Going too far in either direction generates a reaction whose causes are in large part unconscious. That seems to be a big reason why Hillary Clinton lost to Donald Trump, that she and her supporters assumed the modern progressive mentality of basing policy on evidence would resonate broadly across the electorate, and did not understand how progressivism is viewed by its critics as a rival myth.
I'm not sure I am up to diving into this complexity at the moment, but armed with Baldwin's boldness I will give it a try. On one level I really, really agree with this. The Left Brain processes of legitimacy and rational order have clearly gone too far in terms of dismissing even the goals embodied in simple religion. Anyone who knows Mennonites, for example, can't help but be impressed at the power that devotion brings to human idealism. To try to reduce that to self-delusion, in favor of gaping at Game of Thrones and sneering at the Kardashians because "everyone makes their own choices" is to plunge into a self-delusion far more desperate in its soul. If we are not saved by love, we are not saved at all - reason may build the house, but it is not a home until it is inhabited by love. And as far as anyone can tell, that happens in the Right Brain, in processes deeper than anything reason has penetrated to (and can only make space for by fighting off fear).

Yet I find myself rejecting the specifics of opting simply for "balance". There is renewal happening on many fronts, from the dramatic acceleration of standards of living in Asia and Latin America to the educational progress coming from reconciliation methods and the luxury of focusing on all the students, not just the most successful ones. Reason is a mighty force, capable of solving problems that inchoate longings merely react to with frustration and eventually violence. "Yes, we can!" is the right spirit, but it has to be anchored in confidence based on understanding. The long recession, and its depredations on public services, combined with the job losses in manufacturing that have undermined small town economies and the devastation of the latest drug epidemic, have shifted a fundamental balance toward fear. However, fear isn't the only Right Brain mode.
Robert Tulip wrote:
Faith constructs a mental fortress that evidence cannot penetrate, except when facts are explained by people who are already inside the castle and share the value system of its residents. This creates difficult problems about negotiation and compromise. Giving ground to ideas that you dislike, for example with secular-minded people accepting the importance of conventional Christian faith for cultural identity, can enable conversations about other topics.
You have been sounding this note regularly, and I tend to find it appealing. The combination of people within the "fortress" explaining, and those outside dialoguing with tolerance, has made great strides. I hold out hope that it will succeed further.



The following user would like to thank Harry Marks for this post:
Robert Tulip
Sat Apr 13, 2019 11:30 am
Profile Email
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 49 posts ] • Topic evaluate: Evaluations: 0, 0.00 on the average.Evaluations: 0, 0.00 on the average.Evaluations: 0, 0.00 on the average.Evaluations: 0, 0.00 on the average.Evaluations: 0, 0.00 on the average.  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 11 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:



Site Resources 
HELPFUL INFO:
Forum Rules & Tips
Frequently Asked Questions
BBCode Explained
Author Interview Transcripts
Be a Book Discussion Leader!

IDEAS FOR WHAT TO READ:
Bestsellers
Book Awards
• Book Reviews
• Online Books
• Team Picks
Newspaper Book Sections

WHERE TO BUY BOOKS:
• Great resource pages are coming!

BEHIND THE BOOKS:
• Great resource pages are coming!

PROMOTE YOUR BOOK!
Advertise on BookTalk.org
How To Promote Your Book





BookTalk.org is a thriving book discussion forum, online reading group or book club. We read and talk about both fiction and non-fiction books as a community. Our forums are open to anyone in the world. While discussing books is our passion we also have active forums for talking about poetry, short stories, writing and authors. Our general discussion forum section includes forums for discussing science, religion, philosophy, politics, history, current events, arts, entertainment and more. We hope you join us!


Navigation 
MAIN NAVIGATION

HOMEFORUMSOUR BOOKSAUTHOR INTERVIEWSADVERTISELINKSFAQDONATETERMS OF USEPRIVACY POLICYSITEMAP

OTHER PAGES WORTH EXPLORING
Banned Book ListOnline Reading GroupTop 10 Atheism Books

Copyright © BookTalk.org 2002-2019. All rights reserved.
Display Pagerank