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The Coup against Donald Trump 
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Post Re: The Coup against Donald Trump
Thatcher's wins gave her govts over 40% of the electorate on turnouts of about 75%, and the second win represented a landslide, to all intents and purposes. First past the post is not the ideal system, it leads to the concept of 'safe' and 'marginal' seats and is therefore too easily manipulated. There have been a number of attempts to push for a more balanced system - transferable votes etc - but they are always defeated by the vested interests of politicians and lobbyists who know exactly on which side their bread is buttered - this is one of the things that feeds into the antipathy against Europe (neatly sidestepping the geographical fact that the UK is physically part of Europe). What is quite astonishing is that a politician who has never been elected to a UK seat (Nigel Farage) has managed to bring the country to the situation it is now in. The fault, if we are looking for one, clearly lies with Cameron's decision to accept the idiocy of Farage and the Rightists in his the Tory Party and call for the Referendum. The second fault lies in the use of a referendum, which is a simplistic method used to solve complex matters; the favoured weapon of rabble-rousing dictators, and far from a democratic procedure. Cameron was probably the weakest British PM in history (and there have been some fine candidates), although Theresa May is coming up fast on the inside.

I think I'm beginning to understand a little more about the US system, but it does seem to pit state against state in a fairly aggressive manner - I remember reading comments along the lines of 'why should California decide how we live in Iowa?' and that seems odd during a General Election. It's Americans deciding how Americans live, as a nation.



Fri Mar 22, 2019 6:09 am
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Post Re: The Coup against Donald Trump
You would think that Democrats in America would be pleased today that President Trump isn't a Russian puppet. But that's not the case.

For the past two years the Left has said that it was pursuing Trump/Russia connections for the good of the country. They said they were patriots and so on. They supported the investigatory team headed by Clinton henchman Mueller and made up exclusively of Democratic Party hacks as it ate up two years investigating and probing. And now that team has said there is no Trump/Russia connection. And instead of being happy, Democratic Leftists are angrier than ever.

The U.S. Constitution came through once again. It saved the nation. While Mueller and his band of Leftists bankrupted people with legal fees, illegally leaked classified information, and used the media to spread the wildest conspiracies their fevered minds could concoct, the constitution's checks and balances prevented the coup d'état from succeeding.

Now we need a reckoning. Failed coup plotters used to be summarily executed, or they fell on their swords. But this bunch of hateful anti-Americans won't dispatch themselves. So we need to do it. We need to do it by never voting Democratic again. My votes have been split evenly Dem/Rep in the past, voting for the best candidate, but never again. The Democrats tried to overthrow a duly elected president, and they are unrepentant. They have attacked their own home. They are insane. They will keep attacking their home until they destroy it and all who are inside.

...Trump antagonists, with the help of the media, used fear over Russia to try to reverse the results of a legitimate election. Nothing like this has ever happened in modern American history.
thefederalist.com/2019/03/25/media-irre ... Mg.twitter

Shock Claim: Clinton Team Hatched ‘Blame Russia’ Plan Within 24 Hours Of Loss – Resulted In 675 Day Mueller Investigation
theeconomiccollapseblog.com/archives/sh ... estigation

Flashback: 50 Hollywood Stars Who Accused Trump of Treason, Collusion with Russia
breitbart.com/entertainment/2019/03/25/ ... th-russia/

Trump should pardon all of the people who were tarnished by the Mueller witch hunt and ask for a special prosecutor to look into how the coup was conceived and implemented. But he probably won't do that, so I'll just never vote Democratic again.


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Post Re: The Coup against Donald Trump
KindaSkolarly wrote:
You would think that Democrats in America would be pleased today that President Trump isn't a Russian puppet. But that's not the case.
Actually I have heard quite a few say exactly that. But it's hard to blame them for reacting to veiled threats and obvious dishonesty by Dear Leader. The idea that the Dems have led in post-Mueller ungraciousness is quite humorous.

KindaSkolarly wrote:
For the past two years the Left has said that it was pursuing Trump/Russia connections for the good of the country. They said they were patriots and so on.
Of course it would not have been a bi-partisan effort if not for the smoke of all the henchmen with connections to Russia, and all the denials (many blatantly untrue) about it. His campaign chairman was a Russian tool from years back. He falsely denied hotel or other projects in the works with the Russian government. Simple patriotism demanded an investigation, and of course Dear Leader tried to put the fix in, so it had to be a special prosecutor.
KindaSkolarly wrote:
They supported the investigatory team headed by Clinton henchman Mueller and made up exclusively of Democratic Party hacks as it ate up two years investigating and probing.
Does it ever bother you to lie so blatantly about people? I mean, you might give a moment's thought to your credibility, now and then.
KindaSkolarly wrote:
And now that team has said there is no Trump/Russia connection. And instead of being happy, Democratic Leftists are angrier than ever.
"Anger" kinda depends on who, and also on how things unfold next. I, for one, am angry about the vicious character assassination that goes on without stop from Dear Leader and his Foxes. After you have been lied to with a straight face enough times, you just despise the liars.

KindaSkolarly wrote:
The U.S. Constitution came through once again. It saved the nation.
I would tend to agree with you about that. It remains to be seen whether Republicans are willing to join in safeguarding our elections from similar foreign machinations in the future.

KindaSkolarly wrote:
While Mueller and his band of Leftists bankrupted people with legal fees, illegally leaked classified information, and used the media to spread the wildest conspiracies their fevered minds could concoct, the constitution's checks and balances prevented the coup d'état from succeeding.
I don't remember Kenneth Starr being shy about the legal fees of his targets, or about pursuing wild conspiracy theories. But in the case of the current administration, I have heard nothing of conspiracies but only crime after crime after crime. We know Dear Leader misrepresented his assets to banks, a crime, and we have good reason to believe that his henchmen, including in the family, have been engaged in money laundering for rich assassins. We know he directed his son to lie, his lawyer to lie, his lawyer to violate campaign finance laws, his FBI director to corruptly derail an investigation that might have featured national security concerns, his Acting AG to put a loyalist in charge of an investigation the man had already recused himself from, everyone in sight to hint about offers of pardon, and is now threatening retaliation for the probe as well as claiming exoneration by an investigation that explicitly stated he was not exonerated, probably making such a provocative and unusual statement precisely because of the dubious theory that a sitting "President" may not be indicted. If our Dear Leader was anything like an innocent man, he would be cooperating with the investigation in an effort to clear his name, but instead tosses around Mafia Don talk about rats and tough guys.

KindaSkolarly wrote:
Now we need a reckoning. Failed coup plotters used to be summarily executed, or they fell on their swords. But this bunch of hateful anti-Americans won't dispatch themselves.
There is no evidence of anything remotely resembling a coup. At one point I was hearing this accusation about the suggestion of wearing a wire so Americans would know what their Dear Leader is like. That would be what brought down Richard Milhous Nixon, who was so paranoid he taped his own executive conversations, (mostly secretly from the other participants,) then directed his secretary to try to erase incriminating parts when the existence of the tapes became known. Know what Trump said about Nixon? He should have resisted with more toughness. Just what any innocent man, anyone concerned about the good of the country and the faithful execution of the laws of the land would say. The man is a walking assault on the rule of law.

KindaSkolarly wrote:
So we need to do it. We need to do it by never voting Democratic again. My votes have been split evenly Dem/Rep in the past, voting for the best candidate, but never again.
I kind of like the idea that your paranoid rants will only attack Dems from now on. It sort of makes the point of moderate Democrats for them, without much more needing to be said about the party you are now backing.
KindaSkolarly wrote:
The Democrats tried to overthrow a duly elected president, and they are unrepentant. They have attacked their own home. They are insane. They will keep attacking their home until they destroy it and all who are inside.
Presumably that's the way you felt about the Kenneth Starr investigation, and the Republicans who rejected the first special counsel investigation for not finding the wrong-doing they knew was there? So were you voting only Democrat for a while there?

I am not quite sure why you can't see that the attacking is being done by Dear Leader, who reached his party's nomination precisely by attack dog behavior and divisiveness that Putin can't help but love. I'm not sure why you can't see that Democrats love their country, including the people with pre-existing conditions. I really, really can't make sense of you. Whatever it is, I hope you are one day blessed by relief from this condition.



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Tue Mar 26, 2019 2:34 am
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Post Re: The Coup against Donald Trump
It's a good moment for the country, now that reasonable people can conclude that the Trump campaign didn't collude, in a provable criminal sense, with Russia. I'd agree with the observation that too many Democrats weren't interested in celebrating that, due to worry about the exoneration on collusion boosting Trump in the 2020 election. On the obstruction charge that Mueller left open, Democrats should desist, as difficult as that is when Trump so clearly and openly attempted to obstruct. But there is no overturning what Barr and Rosenstein determined. I don't think the obstruction reached Nixonian levels, though that is far from a point in Trump's favor.

It's completely ridiculous for Republicans to be calling for an apology from Democrats. As if, with all the visible signs that something had gone on between the campaign and Russia, there wasn't enough to investigate. There was; to let it all go unquestioned would have been a dereliction of duty by our government. Recall that even Republicans in large measure believed the matter needed to be investigated. Now the more rabid members of that group want an apology, as well as investigation of the investigators.

Regarding 2020, if Democrats can't mount a campaign against Trump based on all the empty boasts he made and haven't materialized, they are a sorry bunch. They also can draw some comfort from the reality that Trump's legal difficulties aren't over. Trump can still be left to be his own worst enemy, without Democrats having to lead the show.



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Tue Mar 26, 2019 7:20 am
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Post Re: The Coup against Donald Trump
Harry Marks wrote:
blah blah blah Dear Leader blah blah Russian tool blah blah blah Dear Leader and his Foxes blah blah foreign machinations blah blah blah Dear Leader crime after crime after crime blah blah walking assault on the rule of law blah blah Putin blah Democrats love their country.

Forgive me for scraping the excess excreta from my boot.

Democrats don't love America. They love some perverted concept about what America should be, and they need iron-fisted power to ram that concept down the throats of American citizens. Democrats love power. And they will stop at nothing to secure that power. Witness the attempted coup that was Russiagate. (You really need to stop with the Putinization of your worldview, by the way. Russia is not our enemy. That would be the ChiComs, which Trump has actively engaged in a trade war we will now be able to win thanks to Trump being guaranteed a second term by the Russiagate fiasco. Your obsession with Putin just got you and your ilk in a world of trouble, so you really should try to un-learn the name).

Democrats want a borderless country. Democrats want to give tens of thousands in benefits per annum to violent illegal aliens, while jacking up taxes on law-abiding legal citizens. Democrats claim to be inclusive but demonize people who don't go along with their groupthink.

The Democratic Party is intent on destroying America. Americans see this now. Leftists discharged a blunderbuss in Trump's face with Russiagate and he survived. Dems now promote post-birth abortion in their insanity, and the universally reviled Green New Deal, and a hundred other anti-human agendas.

The only way the Dems can survive as a party now is to rig all future elections.


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Post Re: The Coup against Donald Trump
THE LAW THAT CAN TAKE DOWN THE DEEP STATE
youtube.com/watch?v=AtpSyByI-Rg&fea ... e=youtu.be

Excellent video. It makes the point that in the Left's recent attempt to overthrow the 2016 presidential election with the Russiagate hoax, many people violated 18 U.S. Code § 2385. They advocated the overthrow of the US government.

Many politicians, reporters, TV personalities and so on claimed to have "direct evidence" of Trump's treasonous interactions with the Russians. This helped to turn half of America against the government. We ran a real risk of civil unrest and even civil war, because of a lie.

While some on the Left may be guilty of treason in the Russiagate affair, MANY appear to be guilty of violating 18 U.S. Code § 2385.

Quote:
Whoever knowingly or willfully advocates, abets, advises, or teaches the duty, necessity, desirability, or propriety of overthrowing or destroying the government of the United States or the government of any State, Territory, District or Possession thereof, or the government of any political subdivision therein, by force or violence, or by the assassination of any officer of any such government; or

Whoever, with intent to cause the overthrow or destruction of any such government, prints, publishes, edits, issues, circulates, sells, distributes, or publicly displays any written or printed matter advocating, advising, or teaching the duty, necessity, desirability, or propriety of overthrowing or destroying any government in the United States by force or violence, or attempts to do so; or

Whoever organizes or helps or attempts to organize any society, group, or assembly of persons who teach, advocate, or encourage the overthrow or destruction of any such government by force or violence; or becomes or is a member of, or affiliates with, any such society, group, or assembly of persons, knowing the purposes thereof—

Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both, and shall be ineligible for employment by the United States or any department or agency thereof, for the five years next following his conviction.

If two or more persons conspire to commit any offense named in this section, each shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both, and shall be ineligible for employment by the United States or any department or agency thereof, for the five years next following his conviction....

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2385


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Post Re: The Coup against Donald Trump
KindaSkolarly wrote:
THE LAW THAT CAN TAKE DOWN THE DEEP STATE
youtube.com/watch?v=AtpSyByI-Rg&fea ... e=youtu.be

Excellent video. It makes the point that in the Left's recent attempt to overthrow the 2016 presidential election with the Russiagate hoax, many people violated 18 U.S. Code § 2385. They advocated the overthrow of the US government.
This is, of course, exaggerated. I think we should think carefully about the issues involved, even though the accusations are themselves as irresponsible as the behavior being called out.

KindaSkolarly wrote:
Many politicians, reporters, TV personalities and so on claimed to have "direct evidence" of Trump's treasonous interactions with the Russians. This helped to turn half of America against the government. We ran a real risk of civil unrest and even civil war, because of a lie.
There is direct evidence that Dear Leader's campaign passed polling data to the Russians, and had advance notice of the Wikileaks publications, and took a meeting that they were honor-bound to not only refuse but report the attempt of. Whether that rises to the level of treason depends heavily on whether there is more stuff going on. We now know that there was not enough evidence to establish such treason, and I for one am glad to hear it. But that doesn't mean it should not have been investigated. Or that those who made irresponsible allegations were doing any more than what was said about the Clintons in connection with Whitewater. Accusation is not the same as advocating overthrow of the government. We have a legal system to assess the evidence.

It should not be necessary to point out, but the accusations flying on Fox have deliberately ignored (as did Devin Nunes' travesty of oversight) the fact that the investigation began before the Steele dossier was presented, based on the Papadopoulos boasting, or that it was pursued for professional reasons, not political reasons. I think if the Senate wants a lot of disclosure of the process behind the investigation that would be a good thing, but simple investigation without the scurrilous accusations would be more credible. Furthermore they ignore the consistent obfuscation, verified by several convictions, over Russia contacts. Any investigator that did not take such lies as a sign of serious misbehavior would be in dereliction of duty.

Some of the lies came from Dear Leader himself. If I didn't know he was a narcissist, I would swear by his covering-up lies that he must have colluded with the Russians. It turns out there is a plausible alternative story, at least when you take into account his inability to process "credibility" as normal people do, and his compulsion to respond to anything that sounds critical with combative behavior. We know he was pursuing contracts with the Russians, and that indeed his entire campaign was motivated by nothing more than venality promoting its brand. His compulsion to hide those gives a sufficient reason for a narcissist to lie and deny. Stupid, absurdly self-sabotaging, but not treasonous. We may learn more in the months ahead about the extent of that venality and it may turn out that he did more than just accept meetings that should have been reported to the FBI and employ people who were up to their double chins in promotion of Russian interests. But for now what we have is a reasonable finding that the evidence doesn't turn out to point to active collusion and the story on obstruction of justice is ambiguous.

So I said we should take the issue of motivation of the investigation seriously. Why? Because just as it is possible for a Nixon to abuse the power of office to suppress disclosure of crimes, so it is possible for Joe McCarthy to allege bogus crimes without evidence. The idea is to set up a set of procedures that both sides can live with because they will be applied the same for either side. We don't treat investigation of apparent wrong-doing as treason or crime, either for investigations of Whitewater or for investigation of Russiagate. We assess openly, stating what the basis is, whether the investigation had facts to be based on, and we don't treat winning elections as a license to lie, cheat and steal with impunity.

KindaSkolarly wrote:
While some on the Left may be guilty of treason in the Russiagate affair, MANY appear to be guilty of violating 18 U.S. Code § 2385.

Quote:
Whoever knowingly or willfully advocates, abets, advises, or teaches the duty, necessity, desirability, or propriety of overthrowing or destroying the government of the United States or the government of any State, Territory, District or Possession thereof, or the government of any political subdivision therein, by force or violence, or by the assassination of any officer of any such government; or

Whoever, with intent to cause the overthrow or destruction of any such government, prints, publishes, edits, issues, circulates, sells, distributes, or publicly displays any written or printed matter advocating, advising, or teaching the duty, necessity, desirability, or propriety of overthrowing or destroying any government in the United States by force or violence, or attempts to do so; or
No they really aren't. The words "by force or violence" are a dead giveaway. The whole idea of legitimacy is that we use legal means, not violence, to determine who shall lead and legislate. Pursuing legal means remains within the law. Guaido in Venezuela is not remaining within the law, but then Maduro violated the Constitution repeatedly and egregiously long before it came to that. The Deep State actions in Egypt (where force was used to oust Morsi) and Brazil (where the letter of the law was followed but the legal system refused to itself be accountable) amount to illegitimate actions. The reckless use of such terms for completely accountable actions within the law in the U.S. are an unfortunate undermining of people's vital skill at assessing legitimacy.



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Post Re: The Coup against Donald Trump
The Obama/Clinton coup against Trump failed. Now it's time to pay for the crime. Our new attorney general may be posturing for form's sake, but it sounds as if he knows what happened and plans to address the crimes committed:

Quote:
The Obama administration did spy on the Trump campaign in the run-up to the 2016 presidential election, Attorney General William Barr revealed on Wednesday.

“I think spying did occur,” Barr told a Senate hearing. “But the question is whether it was adequately predicated and I am not suggesting that it wasn’t adequately predicated…I am not suggesting those rules were violated, but I think it is important to look at that. And I am not talking about the FBI necessarily, but intelligence agencies more broadly.”

https://www.infowars.com/ag-barr-confir ... -campaign/

The Obama crew is in deep, deep trouble now. Look for key witnesses to begin dying in plain crashes, "suiciding" themselves and so on. Atty Gen Barr has been swimming the DC swamp for a long time, but if he's a true believer in the justice system then many, many Obamanites are going to prison.


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Post Re: The Coup against Donald Trump
KS wrote:
The Obama crew is in deep, deep trouble now. Look for key witnesses to begin dying in plain crashes, "suiciding" themselves and so on. Atty Gen Barr has been swimming the DC swamp for a long time, but if he's a true believer in the justice system then many, many Obamanites are going to prison.


This is a joke KS. People associated with Trump have gone to prison for crimes discovered during the investigation. It wasn't a witch hunt bearing no fruit. It bore fruit, and plenty of it. There was not only smoke, but also fire.

What does it say about our ability to drain the swamp if we incriminate people for investigating crime? Especially when it's proven there was crime committed?! Think about that long and hard.

I read what you write from time to time wondering if you're just a nutjob, or a satirist. Your content is as bonkers as flat earth. Good for a laugh over morning coffee. Covfefe?


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Post Re: The Coup against Donald Trump
I realise that this may be considered as a very naïve question, and possibly derided as such, but I've not found a truly convincing answer: why do Trump supporters love him so much ? When asked, they never answer the question directly and clearly, without artifice, insult or anger.



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Post Re: The Coup against Donald Trump
vizitelly wrote:
I realise that this may be considered as a very naïve question, and possibly derided as such, but I've not found a truly convincing answer: why do Trump supporters love him so much ? When asked, they never answer the question directly and clearly, without artifice, insult or anger.


Trump supporters have a deep resentment against the cultural dominance of progressive politics, and a view that Trump (as a right wing demagogue like Nixon and Hitler before him) speaks and fights back for an alleged 'silent majority', in a way that rejects the moral framework of social justice in favour of a more competitive mentality.

Many conservatives are not very articulate or coherent, and they welcome Trump as a culture warrior who can argue for values that are widely rejected in the prevailing discourses of modern society. His extremism and charisma generated the energy that won him the nomination and the election.


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Post Re: The Coup against Donald Trump
Ah, the 'silent majority' - except they aren't; not unlike most places, in UK it's the Brexiteers. I was thinking about Trump's subtext of being for the disenfranchised. I came to the conclusion that they aren't disenfranchised, but poor and know that they are exploited. Amazingly, they vote for more exploitation. Easy pickings for fascists and con men. Arturo Ui is rubbing hands together again.



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Post Re: The Coup against Donald Trump
vizitelly wrote:
I realise that this may be considered as a very naïve question, and possibly derided as such, but I've not found a truly convincing answer: why do Trump supporters love him so much ? When asked, they never answer the question directly and clearly, without artifice, insult or anger.


The closest I have seen to a solid answer to this question was in a recent column by Charles Blow. I don't usually like his stuff, but precisely because he is coming from a particular, unusual perspective, he sometimes sees what I don't.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/07/opin ... mpism.html

The idea of Trump as a folk hero actually makes sense of a lot of stuff to me. Think of Robin Hood - it isn't so much what he stood for that made him a folk hero, as what he got away with. His exploits. Trump is all about exploits, in a weird, 21st century, wired-on-the-web-with-reality-TV sort of way. He got away with being outrageous, (still is in some ways,) like the good ol boys who drive away at high speed from the Revenuers who come after their backwoods stills, or like the tall tale tellers who don't expect to be believed but know how to top someone else's yarn, or like the Merry Pranksters who burst the bubble of those who pretend to stand for truth and right but are raking in the cash from secret corporate connections. He's Dirty Harry. He's Lisbeth Salander, the Girl with the Dragon Tattoo. He's Jesse James.

We're talking way out in the Right Brain, here, where logic makes no nevermind.



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Post Re: The Coup against Donald Trump
Along the lines of the folk hero, Matt Taibbi has famously stated that Trump is playing a heel act (bad guy) in World Wide Wrestling.

Gotta luv Charles Blow, he has written an excellent memoir...

vizitelly wrote:
I came to the conclusion that they aren't disenfranchised, but poor and know that they are exploited. Amazingly, they vote for more exploitation.

That is true for some Trump supporters. I have watched them state on camera that they voted for Trump in order to get rid of Obama-care. Somehow they were shocked when their own Obama-care plans were cancelled. They imagined only lazy bums would lose insurance, not hard working good folks like themselves! :x

However, overall it's not true that Trump supporters are poor, their average income is significantly above the national average.



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Post Re: The Coup against Donald Trump
Harry Marks wrote:
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/07/opinion/donald-trump-trumpism.html
We're talking way out in the Right Brain, here, where logic makes no nevermind.

That is an excellent article, delving deep into the mythological psychology of politics. It well explains how demagogic leadership uses emotion to trump reason, and how Trump’s repetitive use of messages targets deep tribal feelings of fear and belonging to generate a powerful bond between him and his supporters.

For those who would like government policy to be more based on logic and evidence, the psychology is important. The Right Brain targets emotion and constructs myths, while the Left Brain targets reason, meaning a balanced political message requires an equal ability to speak to both parts of the brain. Going too far in either direction generates a reaction whose causes are in large part unconscious. That seems to be a big reason why Hillary Clinton lost to Donald Trump, that she and her supporters assumed the modern progressive mentality of basing policy on evidence would resonate broadly across the electorate, and did not understand how progressivism is viewed by its critics as a rival myth.

This problem of psychological balance is essential in understanding the role of religious faith in the formation of human identity. Faith constructs a mental fortress that evidence cannot penetrate, except when facts are explained by people who are already inside the castle and share the value system of its residents. This creates difficult problems about negotiation and compromise. Giving ground to ideas that you dislike, for example with secular-minded people accepting the importance of conventional Christian faith for cultural identity, can enable conversations about other topics.


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The following user would like to thank Robert Tulip for this post:
Harry Marks
Fri Apr 12, 2019 8:47 pm
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