Online reading group and book discussion forum
  HOME ENTER FORUMS OUR BOOKS LINKS DONATE ADVERTISE CONTACT  
View unanswered posts | View active topics It is currently Fri Mar 22, 2019 8:06 am





Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 24 posts ] • Topic evaluate: Evaluations: 0, 0.00 on the average.Evaluations: 0, 0.00 on the average.Evaluations: 0, 0.00 on the average.Evaluations: 0, 0.00 on the average.Evaluations: 0, 0.00 on the average.  Go to page Previous  1, 2
Another atheist, "rational" scientist accused of sexual misconduct. 
Author Message
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
BookTalk.org Hall of Fame

Gold Contributor

Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 5481
Thanks: 1302
Thanked: 889 times in 764 posts
Gender: None specified
Country: United States (us)

Post Re: Another atheist, "rational" scientist accused of sexual misconduct.
Harry Marks wrote:
There's a certain amount of glee in the Progressive Christian community about how poorly the evangelicals have done in dealing with abusive male leaders. Of course, progressives include a fair number of abusive leaders as well. No group seems to be immune. The dynamics of interaction with self-absorption and ego are worth some serious study, in this age of mass communication and celebrity.

For instance, if dominating others is an addiction, as it seems to have been for Harvey Weinstein, what are we learning about enablers and the role of money in shaping them to be that? And if that's what idol-worship looks like, what does that tell us about worship in general, and therefore the true God in particular?



Can you please define "progressive christian" for me, please?



Mon Dec 10, 2018 11:13 am
Profile Email
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
Just realized BookTalk.org is awesome!


Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 779
Thanks: 34
Thanked: 434 times in 336 posts
Gender: Male
Country: United States (us)

Post Re: Another atheist, "rational" scientist accused of sexual misconduct.
Litwitlou wrote:
DB Roy wrote:
I don't give a fuck what any man does to any woman until Donald Trump is investigated for the accusations against him. He has WAY more women accusing him than Tyson or anybody does. If Trump is allowed to get away, then they should all be allowed to get away.


That's what the Trumpettes say every time someone knocks their idol. "Well Hillary, blah blah blah, emails, blah blah Benghazi, blah blah Uranium 1. Then they start on Obama.


Hillary isn't president and she doesn't have any sexual assault charges against her. If Trump molested one of my daughters, I'd fucking kill him!! I don't care if he's the president. And it shouldn't matter. I'm sick of how we let presidents act above the law.



The following user would like to thank DB Roy for this post:
Harry Marks
Mon Dec 10, 2018 5:19 pm
Profile Email
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
Just realized BookTalk.org is awesome!


Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 779
Thanks: 34
Thanked: 434 times in 336 posts
Gender: Male
Country: United States (us)

Post Re: Another atheist, "rational" scientist accused of sexual misconduct.
ant wrote:
Harry Marks wrote:
There's a certain amount of glee in the Progressive Christian community about how poorly the evangelicals have done in dealing with abusive male leaders. Of course, progressives include a fair number of abusive leaders as well. No group seems to be immune. The dynamics of interaction with self-absorption and ego are worth some serious study, in this age of mass communication and celebrity.

For instance, if dominating others is an addiction, as it seems to have been for Harvey Weinstein, what are we learning about enablers and the role of money in shaping them to be that? And if that's what idol-worship looks like, what does that tell us about worship in general, and therefore the true God in particular?



Can you please define "progressive christian" for me, please?


Yeah and for me too please.



Mon Dec 10, 2018 5:20 pm
Profile Email
Years of membership
Senior

Silver Contributor

Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 352
Location: New Jersey
Thanks: 179
Thanked: 157 times in 126 posts
Gender: Male
Country: United States (us)

Post Re: Another atheist, "rational" scientist accused of sexual misconduct.
.
.
Progressive Christianity

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_Christianity


_________________
"The last thing we need in Washington is more federal hubris."
— Scott Pruitt


The following user would like to thank Litwitlou for this post:
ant
Mon Dec 10, 2018 6:12 pm
Profile Email
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
No Bell Prize Winner

Book Discussion Leader

Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1275
Thanks: 1292
Thanked: 620 times in 509 posts
Gender: None specified

Post Re: Another atheist, "rational" scientist accused of sexual misconduct.
ant wrote:
Can you please define "progressive christian" for me, please?

There is no tight definition, but if you look over the Patheos "Progressive Christian" channel you will see some of the range of differences and some of the common traits.

In general, Progressive Christianity has different concerns from Evangelical Christianity, and different points of reference from progressive Roman Catholics. Progressive Christians tend to be liberal in theology, seeing the inspiration of Scripture as something like how we usually use "inspiration" rather than as supernatural revelation. We tend to see "salvation" as something happening in this life and this world, and "sin" in terms of social systems as much as, or more than, personal morals. As a result of all this, social justice is a strong theme and most Progressive Christians affirm same-sex marriage and LGBTQ people in general. Be careful about identifying it with progressive politics: many Progressive Christians are anti-abortion and many, especially in the peace churches such as the Mennonites, can be quite traditional about gender roles.

My wife's cousin, Delwin Brown, wrote a successful book in 2004 entitled "What Does a Progressive Christian Believe?" I have read it and found it very interesting, but I no longer remember many of the specifics. I was struck by the way he found common conclusions among theologians employing very different methods and assumptions. That is the way Christianity as a whole is supposed to work, actually, that concepts like grace and the Body of Christ are supposed to prove out to be very much the same whether you start from experience, philosophy, pious exposition of scripture or radical sociological deconstruction.



The following user would like to thank Harry Marks for this post:
ant
Mon Dec 10, 2018 6:58 pm
Profile Email
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
No Bell Prize Winner

Book Discussion Leader

Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1275
Thanks: 1292
Thanked: 620 times in 509 posts
Gender: None specified

Post Re: Another atheist, "rational" scientist accused of sexual misconduct.

I thought the wiki piece was pretty good, though I suspect Roger Wolsey had more role in writing it than one person should. I like his stuff, but he pushes panentheism as if it is definitional, which it really is not. He also very much likes to think of the movement as defined by post-modern approaches to texts and tradition, which is basically fair but certainly would not fit many who call themselves Progressive Christians.

The end of the piece lists criticisms in terms of Greta Vosper and John Shelby Spong, who are two of the most controversial of high-profile Progressive Christians, and so, again, are not really representative. Yet you would find most of us in the movement much more critical of figures in the Religious Right than of Vosper or Spong.



Mon Dec 10, 2018 7:09 pm
Profile Email
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
BookTalk.org Hall of Fame

Gold Contributor

Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 5481
Thanks: 1302
Thanked: 889 times in 764 posts
Gender: None specified
Country: United States (us)

Post Re: Another atheist, "rational" scientist accused of sexual misconduct.
Litwitlou wrote:


Thanks, but I wanted to read his definition.



Tue Dec 11, 2018 12:55 pm
Profile Email
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
BookTalk.org Hall of Fame

Gold Contributor

Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 5481
Thanks: 1302
Thanked: 889 times in 764 posts
Gender: None specified
Country: United States (us)

Post Re: Another atheist, "rational" scientist accused of sexual misconduct.
Harry Marks wrote:
ant wrote:
Can you please define "progressive christian" for me, please?

There is no tight definition, but if you look over the Patheos "Progressive Christian" channel you will see some of the range of differences and some of the common traits.

In general, Progressive Christianity has different concerns from Evangelical Christianity, and different points of reference from progressive Roman Catholics. Progressive Christians tend to be liberal in theology, seeing the inspiration of Scripture as something like how we usually use "inspiration" rather than as supernatural revelation. We tend to see "salvation" as something happening in this life and this world, and "sin" in terms of social systems as much as, or more than, personal morals. As a result of all this, social justice is a strong theme and most Progressive Christians affirm same-sex marriage and LGBTQ people in general. Be careful about identifying it with progressive politics: many Progressive Christians are anti-abortion and many, especially in the peace churches such as the Mennonites, can be quite traditional about gender roles.

My wife's cousin, Delwin Brown, wrote a successful book in 2004 entitled "What Does a Progressive Christian Believe?" I have read it and found it very interesting, but I no longer remember many of the specifics. I was struck by the way he found common conclusions among theologians employing very different methods and assumptions. That is the way Christianity as a whole is supposed to work, actually, that concepts like grace and the Body of Christ are supposed to prove out to be very much the same whether you start from experience, philosophy, pious exposition of scripture or radical sociological deconstruction.



Thanks.

Do you believe in a personal God?
(you don't have to answer that question, of course)



The following user would like to thank ant for this post:
Harry Marks
Tue Dec 11, 2018 12:57 pm
Profile Email
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
No Bell Prize Winner

Book Discussion Leader

Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1275
Thanks: 1292
Thanked: 620 times in 509 posts
Gender: None specified

Post Re: Another atheist, "rational" scientist accused of sexual misconduct.
ant wrote:
Thanks.

Do you believe in a personal God?
(you don't have to answer that question, of course)
No problem, as long as you don't take my views to be definitive for Progressive Christians.

When I say, "Jesus is divine" what I mean is that he was a specific and material manifestation of the spirit of love, or perhaps you would better understand if I say the "spirit of caring." I don't know what a "personal God" is - the spirit of caring interacts with people all the time, both internally (inside a person's self) and between people. But not as an individual, choice-making participant in the flow of time.

I don't generally think of God as creator. The ideas I work from are probably best explained in terms of Process Theology. It isn't quite right to say "God is a process" but that's better (for my relationship) than "God is a person." A spirit is a relationship (e.g. between people, or between means and ends) that is capable of modifying itself. Roughly speaking, any process or entity that can reflect and "change its mind" about its goals is a spirit.

I realize this does not match well with what the Bible says, especially the Old Testament. I think of the OT character as a symbol for the deeper, more complex process I think we are supposed to relate to. I think of stories of supernatural events as primarily the ancient way of saying things were significant, that is, they signified something important. Maybe supernatural stuff happens, but we have our hands full dealing with significance.



The following user would like to thank Harry Marks for this post:
ant
Tue Dec 11, 2018 1:48 pm
Profile Email
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 24 posts ] • Topic evaluate: Evaluations: 0, 0.00 on the average.Evaluations: 0, 0.00 on the average.Evaluations: 0, 0.00 on the average.Evaluations: 0, 0.00 on the average.Evaluations: 0, 0.00 on the average.  Go to page Previous  1, 2



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 10 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:



Site Resources 
HELPFUL INFO:
Forum Rules & Tips
Frequently Asked Questions
BBCode Explained
Author Interview Transcripts
Be a Book Discussion Leader!

IDEAS FOR WHAT TO READ:
Bestsellers
Book Awards
• Book Reviews
• Online Books
• Team Picks
Newspaper Book Sections

WHERE TO BUY BOOKS:
• Great resource pages are coming!

BEHIND THE BOOKS:
• Great resource pages are coming!

PROMOTE YOUR BOOK!
Advertise on BookTalk.org
How To Promote Your Book





BookTalk.org is a thriving book discussion forum, online reading group or book club. We read and talk about both fiction and non-fiction books as a community. Our forums are open to anyone in the world. While discussing books is our passion we also have active forums for talking about poetry, short stories, writing and authors. Our general discussion forum section includes forums for discussing science, religion, philosophy, politics, history, current events, arts, entertainment and more. We hope you join us!


Navigation 
MAIN NAVIGATION

HOMEFORUMSOUR BOOKSAUTHOR INTERVIEWSADVERTISELINKSFAQDONATETERMS OF USEPRIVACY POLICYSITEMAP

OTHER PAGES WORTH EXPLORING
Banned Book ListOnline Reading GroupTop 10 Atheism Books

Copyright © BookTalk.org 2002-2019. All rights reserved.
Display Pagerank