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The Progressive's choice of religion: Politics 
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Post The Progressive's choice of religion: Politics
Politics, particularly Identity Politics, has replaced religion for the progressive left. This has been happening in America for quite some time and has just now completely risen out into the public arena.

It was a perfect storm for the left to adopt a substitute for religion. After 8 years of democratic leadership in the White House, losing it created a crises of faith among the liberal sheep, which are now utterly desperate to take back their positions of power that create a false sense of security that everything will be okay.
When your identity ( aka "spiritual" for the irreligious) leaders are in their rightful place, nirvana is close.

To our politically religious progressives, Trump literally personifies all that is evil in the world - Nazism, Hitler, misogynist, racist, anti science, anti environment, anti immigrant, liar (what politician has NOT lied), Putin's puppet, and the list goes on and on and on. But it wasn't too long ago when this man personified the american ideal of opulence, success, and fame. A man who rubbed elbows with celebrities and politicians, who once upon a time took his campaign donations with smiles on their faces.

Progressives do not care about my brown skin, this country, or the world. What matters most is restoring their faith and order to the universe that up till now was not in a state of "evil" chaos.

And yet, before Satan occupied the Oval Office there were immigrant families being separated at the border, hard working immigrants being rounded up in deportation raids, horrific crimes of trafficking of displaced immigrant children, exploitation of immigrant labor, american citizens going to bed hungry not knowing where their next meal would be coming from, people living without roofs over their heads, and innocent civilians abroad dying by the hundreds because of US drone strikes.

Spare me this crisis of left wing political faith. There was such a thing as racism long before Trump entered office. As a Latino man, I can attest to it from first hand experience.
All the recent popularized racial self flogging by white Americans preaching the evils of Trumpian racism means nothing to people of color who do not wish to capitalize, or benefit from these recent fashionable waves of championing the "less fortunate." We believe in hard work, and earning what we have. We do not expect or demand help. We respect others, and ourselves. We do not impose our culture on anyone. We are able to play by the rules of "When in Rome" while preserving our values and heritage.


Generally speaking, one reason why religion is missed is because it was a means to contemplate something greater than yourself, truth or falsity aside. That "something" was outside of yourself. It required occupying yourself with something other than yourself. As such, in its healthiest expressions, it's a good antidote for narcissism.

The politics of today actually encourage narcissism. When everyone is obsessing with their identity, no one will ever bother to try and understand yours. It's you that will always be my adversary. You're the problem, not me.


A "new form of identity" for the religiously unaffiliated left:

Quote:
It’s the segment that’s surprising: Religiously unaffiliated voters, who may or may not be associated with other civic institutions, seem most excited about supporting or donating to causes, going to rallies, and expressing opinions online, among other activities. Political engagement may be providing these Americans with a new form of identity. And in turn, they may be helping to solidify the new identity of the Democratic Party.


https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/ar ... ts/572674/



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Post Re: The Progressive's choice of religion: Politics
ant wrote:
To our politically religious progressives, Trump literally personifies all that is evil in the world - Nazism, Hitler, misogynist, racist, anti science, anti environment, anti immigrant, liar (what politician has NOT lied), Putin's puppet, and the list goes on and on and on.


He is indeed misogynist. He is definitely racist. He is also definitely anti-science. He's lied orders of magnitude more than any president in recent history. The list goes on and on. But he's not evil. He's just not smart.

If I'm part of identity politics, then I don't care. Whatever that label means, it doesn't matter to me. Trump is a moron, and the real war in this country is over the distribution of wealth, which he's exacerbating. Most of the other policies don't matter to me.

The cringeworthy stupidity of Trump makes me apologize to my overseas co-workers. They understand he's a minority president, and don't think all Americans are dumb enough to vote for the guy. If identity politics means identifying with Trump, it's like eating a rotten avocado, I just can't.


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Post Re: The Progressive's choice of religion: Politics
ant wrote:
Politics, particularly Identity Politics, has replaced religion for the progressive left. This has been happening in America for quite some time and has just now completely risen out into the public arena.
I think you make some good points here. Interestingly, David Brooks makes the mirror image diagnosis of conservatism (he identifies as conservative). In his view, they lost the moral fervor of defending against communism with the fall of the Soviet Union, and "blood and soil" nationalism was the only unifying ideal left in the gap.

ant wrote:
It was a perfect storm for the left to adopt a substitute for religion. After 8 years of democratic leadership in the White House, losing it created a crises of faith among the liberal sheep, which are now utterly desperate to take back their positions of power that create a false sense of security that everything will be okay.
When your identity ( aka "spiritual" for the irreligious) leaders are in their rightful place, nirvana is close.
I don't think I buy this part. I do think Obama was an inspiring, unifying leader for liberals like me and most of my friends. And I think his position did provide some sense of security about, e.g. health care and the environment, that now feel like we have been turned over to the tender mercies of corporations. But there is a similarity between the insecurity that resulted from unified Republican government (which did not actually manage to repeal Obamacare but did their darndest) and the insecurity that motivates a lot of religious people. Identity leaders? That's in your imagination, in my opinion.

ant wrote:
To our politically religious progressives, Trump literally personifies all that is evil in the world - Nazism, Hitler, misogynist, racist, anti science, anti environment, anti immigrant, liar (what politician has NOT lied), Putin's puppet, and the list goes on and on and on. But it wasn't too long ago when this man personified the american ideal of opulence, success, and fame. A man who rubbed elbows with celebrities and politicians, who once upon a time took his campaign donations with smiles on their faces.
I don't think you will find that most liberals admired Donald Trump. We do not automatically assume that multi-millionaires are crooks, but even Jeff Bezos has something on his mind other than making my life better, and so naturally we don't trust him. Gates was, and remains, a scofflaw monopolist. Sam Walton built an empire on exploiting marginal workers (although he and his people did some good things too, like Gates.) Google no longer even pretends they don't want to be evil, and the demonic forces of private equity are the standard bearers for claims that greed is good.

ant wrote:
Progressives do not care about my brown skin, this country, or the world. What matters most is restoring their faith and order to the universe that up till now was not in a state of "evil" chaos.
Pretty sweeping generalization. You would have a hard time making any of that stick for any of the progressives I know. But it's true we care deeply about forces of "order" like having the leaders sworn to uphold the constitution actually defend it instead of attacking it (Dear Leader recently proposed to repeal part of the Constitution by executive order. How do you like them apples?) and having the government spread the truth rather than ban it, as they have with several environmental issues now. Constitutional democracy does go to the heart of what we love about our country. What is the point of the sacrifice to defeat Naziism if we are going to empower anti-Semitism and authoritarian subjugation of law here at home all by ourselves?

ant wrote:
And yet, before Satan occupied the Oval Office there were immigrant families being separated at the border, hard working immigrants being rounded up in deportation raids, horrific crimes of trafficking of displaced immigrant children, exploitation of immigrant labor, american citizens going to bed hungry not knowing where their next meal would be coming from, people living without roofs over their heads, and innocent civilians abroad dying by the hundreds because of US drone strikes.
I don't like any of those, but I don't see that they represented threats to Constitutional democracy.

ant wrote:
Spare me this crisis of left wing political faith. There was such a thing as racism long before Trump entered office. As a Latino man, I can attest to it from first hand experience.
All the recent popularized racial self flogging by white Americans preaching the evils of Trumpian racism means nothing to people of color who do not wish to capitalize, or benefit from these recent fashionable waves of championing the "less fortunate."
Well, are you prepared to demonstrate that this is the view of "most" people of color, let along "almost all"? My understanding is that most people of color would love to have the racist barriers to opportunity removed, and while they may not appreciate the fashionability of resistance to racism, they would prefer Heather Heyer to Dylann Roof any day of the week.

ant wrote:
We believe in hard work, and earning what we have. We do not expect or demand help. We respect others, and ourselves. We do not impose our culture on anyone. We are able to play by the rules of "When in Rome" while preserving our values and heritage.
Who doesn't prefer to earn what they have? That doesn't mean that people of color are happy to play by the rules that say sitting in Starbucks with dark skin will get you harassed by the police, and driving with a registered weapon and brown skin will get you killed. Asking for the respect white people take for granted is not asking for "help."

ant wrote:
Generally speaking, one reason why religion is missed is because it was a means to contemplate something greater than yourself, truth or falsity aside. That "something" was outside of yourself. It required occupying yourself with something other than yourself. As such, in its healthiest expressions, it's a good antidote for narcissism.
This is vital truth. I'm not sure identifying with improving the world through politics and government action is a bad thing, or fails to give you something greater than yourself to contemplate. Nor am I sure the level of hypocrisy is greater among liberals than among the religious. But I do know it is not narcissistic to want the climate rescued from the damage humans are doing to it on a massive scale. It may not help my soul, but it is for sure the right thing to do, and promoting denial is bad for the soul.

ant wrote:
The politics of today actually encourage narcissism. When everyone is obsessing with their identity, no one will ever bother to try and understand yours. It's you that will always be my adversary. You're the problem, not me.
This is the part I most agree with, and find most insightful. There's a reason why politics and religion are the traditional "no go" topics for polite company. It is all too easy to make them about showing other people to be wrong, instead of examining myself to see where I am worshiping idols.



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Post Re: The Progressive's choice of religion: Politics
ant wrote:

The politics of today actually encourage narcissism. When everyone is obsessing with their identity, no one will ever bother to try and understand yours. It's you that will always be my adversary. You're the problem, not me.



And this is why I'm on the Fox News site everyday. I agree with much of what is written in their comments section but the rampant racism and Donald Trump Worship Society...


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Sun Nov 18, 2018 10:08 am
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Post Re: The Progressive's choice of religion: Politics
ant wrote:
Politics, particularly Identity Politics, has replaced religion for the progressive left. This has been happening in America for quite some time and has just now completely risen out into the public arena.

Emma Green's Atlantic piece doesn't say that these non-religious, politically motivated voters are especially into identity politics. They may be getting their sense of identity from politics instead of religion, but that of course isn't identity politics. I just wanted to separate what you're asserting from what Green does.
Quote:
It was a perfect storm for the left to adopt a substitute for religion. After 8 years of democratic leadership in the White House, losing it created a crises of faith among the liberal sheep, which are now utterly desperate to take back their positions of power that create a false sense of security that everything will be okay.
When your identity ( aka "spiritual" for the irreligious) leaders are in their rightful place, nirvana is close.

I might as well say that I'm skeptical of "substitute for religion" arguments based on the enthusiasm or devotion of some individual or group. It seems a loose way of speaking to say that shopping, sports, yoga, or, yes, politics are the same as religions because they have enthusiasts. I admit I don't know how to explain this great movement to religious non-affiliation among Democrats, and the possibly more gung-ho attitude of those people.
Quote:
To our politically religious progressives, Trump literally personifies all that is evil in the world - Nazism, Hitler, misogynist, racist, anti science, anti environment, anti immigrant, liar (what politician has NOT lied), Putin's puppet, and the list goes on and on and on.

Well, remove the first two anti's as being extreme, we're still left with the rest being valid to reasonable people. The "all politicians lie" rationale attempts equivalence, but it doesn't work. Does it not matter that this president has made lying and fictions a true M.O.? There isn't another president within memory who has done that.
Quote:
But it wasn't too long ago when this man personified the american ideal of opulence, success, and fame. A man who rubbed elbows with celebrities and politicians, who once upon a time took his campaign donations with smiles on their faces.

Obviously he's still magic to a part of the citizenry, while to another large segment he never did embody admirable America ideals.
Quote:
And yet, before Satan occupied the Oval Office there were immigrant families being separated at the border, hard working immigrants being rounded up in deportation raids, horrific crimes of trafficking of displaced immigrant children, exploitation of immigrant labor, american citizens going to bed hungry not knowing where their next meal would be coming from, people living without roofs over their heads, and innocent civilians abroad dying by the hundreds because of US drone strikes.

I accept the point that memories can be short and that people pay attention to problems selectively.
Quote:
Spare me this crisis of left wing political faith. There was such a thing as racism long before Trump entered office. As a Latino man, I can attest to it from first hand experience.

Why try to excuse someone who has made a bad problem worse?
Quote:
Generally speaking, one reason why religion is missed is because it was a means to contemplate something greater than yourself, truth or falsity aside. That "something" was outside of yourself. It required occupying yourself with something other than yourself. As such, in its healthiest expressions, it's a good antidote for narcissism.

A contradiction to the "politics is religion" claim? What else is religion besides an occupation with something greater?
Quote:
The politics of today actually encourage narcissism. When everyone is obsessing with their identity, no one will ever bother to try and understand yours. It's you that will always be my adversary. You're the problem, not me.

That is well put, but I'd put a nonpartisan spin on it.



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Post Re: The Progressive's choice of religion: Politics
This photo shows what politics as religion really looks like. All of these pastors believe that an omniscient, benevolent, all powerful Deity directly affected the US election in 2016 in order to defeat a candidate who is pure evil, satanic, and a commie pedophile (to summarize an extremely long list). This Deity also installed Donald J. Trump as President. A strange choice for an All Knowing Being to make considering Trump's history of adultery, bad business deals, mafia connections, Biblical illiteracy, and switching political parties every few years etc. - but nonetheless, this is God's Will!

What are these pastors doing in the photo? They are performing a "laying on of hands" on Trump, which means they believe their bodies and especially their arms and hands are tuned into and receiving Supernatural Grace, Healing, Love, and Wisdom, and then transmitting those powerful Spiritual Energies directly into President Trump. (Although one minister may be trying to pick a booger.) But Trump doesn't care about those people beyond their money and votes let alone the book he's holding, so WTF is he doing? Soaking in every molecule of worship!


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Post Re: The Progressive's choice of religion: Politics
LanDroid wrote:
This photo shows what politics as religion really looks like. All of these pastors believe that an omniscient, benevolent, all powerful Deity directly affected the US election in 2016 in order to defeat a candidate who is pure evil, satanic, and a commie pedophile (to summarize an extremely long list). This Deity also installed Donald J. Trump as President. A strange choice for an All Knowing Being to make considering Trump's history of adultery, bad business deals, mafia connections, Biblical illiteracy, and switching political parties every few years etc. - but nonetheless, this is God's Will!

What are these pastors doing in the photo? They are performing a "laying on of hands" on Trump, which means they believe their bodies and especially their arms and hands are tuned into and receiving Supernatural Grace, Healing, Love, and Wisdom, and then transmitting those powerful Spiritual Energies directly into President Trump. (Although one minister may be trying to pick a booger.) But Trump doesn't care about those people beyond their money and votes let alone the book he's holding, so WTF is he doing? Soaking in every molecule of worship!


The religious right lost all credibility by endorsing Trump.


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Post Re: The Progressive's choice of religion: Politics
And at this site you can find an argument that this (politics as religion) is as it should be

https://www.patheos.com/blogs/scienceon ... -religion/



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Post Re: The Progressive's choice of religion: Politics
Quote:
For God so loved the world, that he gave his second begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
John 3:16 DJT


https://patch.com/missouri/clayton-rich ... uis-county


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When you spread out your hands in prayer, I will hide My eyes from you; even though you multiply your prayers, I will not listen. Your hands are covered with blood.
Isaiah 1:15

But if there is serious injury, you are to take life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burn for burn, wound for wound, bruise for bruise.
Exodus 21: 23 - 25
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Post Re: The Progressive's choice of religion: Politics
Quote:
Why Trump Reigns as King Cyrus
The Christian right doesn’t like the president only for his judges. They like his style.

I have attended dozens of Christian nationalist conferences and events over the past two years. And while I have heard plenty of comments casting doubt on the more questionable aspects of Mr. Trump’s character, the gist of the proceedings almost always comes down to the belief that he is a miracle sent straight from heaven to bring the nation back to the Lord. I have also learned that resistance to Mr. Trump is tantamount to resistance to God.

This isn’t the religious right we thought we knew. The Christian nationalist movement today is authoritarian, paranoid and patriarchal at its core. They aren’t fighting a culture war. They’re making a direct attack on democracy itself. They want it all.

Katherine Stewart 12/31/18
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/31/opin ... -king.html

Here's a little taste of that...
Quote:
Many believers are familiar with the Cyrus anointing that God has given to President Trump, our 45th president, connected to Isaiah 45.

...But, one of the little-known dimensions of the Cyrus anointing is the anointing God gave King Cyrus to defeat Babylon! This is mentioned in multiple books of the Bible, including Jeremiah, Isaiah and Daniel. The Babylon of old simply has new “faces” now. The same ancient demonic powers and principalities of Babylon are still in operation in our nation—and the nations. So, this is a profound promise of God to grant our 45th president the anointing to defeat Babylon!

In Jeremiah 50:38 it says about Babylon, “A drought against her waters that they may be dried up”. Cyrus redirected the river Euphrates and secured the victory. Cyrus literally “drained the swamp” of Babylon! Some historians believe that Cyrus defeated Babylon in one day!

God’s Word is clear that HE is the one who has anointed Cyrus/President Trump and that he will carry out God’s purposes with success.

As we look at what the enemy is seeking to do with unholy alliances, unholy covenants and unholy handshakes in this hour of our nation, it is remarkable to see instead a “holy handshake” that God Himself has made with Cyrus/President Trump, as well as astonishing promises pertaining to kings and nations–and even recovery of wealth mentioned in Isaiah 45:1-3.

Jon + Jolene Hamill 1/14/19
http://jonandjolene.us/day-12-record-br ... e-babylon/


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When you spread out your hands in prayer, I will hide My eyes from you; even though you multiply your prayers, I will not listen. Your hands are covered with blood.
Isaiah 1:15

But if there is serious injury, you are to take life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burn for burn, wound for wound, bruise for bruise.
Exodus 21: 23 - 25


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Post Re: The Progressive's choice of religion: Politics


"I am so sorry to my world!"


"My" world


LOL!



Tue Jan 15, 2019 4:57 pm
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Post Re: The Progressive's choice of religion: Politics
Progressives have no religion (as conventionally understood) and don't value any notion of God. That's the premise of the post. That doesn't seem to me a very firm platform, so I'm reluctant to engage.



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Post Re: The Progressive's choice of religion: Politics
DWill wrote:
Progressives have no religion (as conventionally understood) and don't value any notion of God. That's the premise of the post. That doesn't seem to me a very firm platform, so I'm reluctant to engage.



That's understandable.
But yes they do... for many (not all) politics is their religion. As you can see in the video of the crying Lib, she's about as fervent as any religious fanatic I've seen.



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Post Re: The Progressive's choice of religion: Politics
ant wrote:
DWill wrote:
Progressives have no religion (as conventionally understood) and don't value any notion of God. That's the premise of the post. That doesn't seem to me a very firm platform, so I'm reluctant to engage.



That's understandable.
But yes they do... for many (not all) politics is their religion. As you can see in the video of the crying Lib, she's about as fervent as any religious fanatic I've seen.

I understand your desire to talk about this and am not doubting that many specimens exist of this kind of outrage syndrome. But it's that in my current mood, at least, I try to shy away from arguments in which a group is defined by certain traits that it has and other groups don't. That seems to feed into polarization. Maybe I have Red/Blue exhaustion.



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Post Re: The Progressive's choice of religion: Politics
DWill wrote:
ant wrote:
DWill wrote:
Progressives have no religion (as conventionally understood) and don't value any notion of God. That's the premise of the post. That doesn't seem to me a very firm platform, so I'm reluctant to engage.



That's understandable.
But yes they do... for many (not all) politics is their religion. As you can see in the video of the crying Lib, she's about as fervent as any religious fanatic I've seen.

I understand your desire to talk about this and am not doubting that many specimens exist of this kind of outrage syndrome. But it's that in my current mood, at least, I try to shy away from arguments in which a group is defined by certain traits that it has and other groups don't. That seems to feed into polarization. Maybe I have Red/Blue exhaustion.



That's fine.

If you played the video you can hear this politico-religious fanatic calling the entire world HER world. No doubt, meaning the world that belongs to her fervent political fanaticism.
That's actually just as bad, if not worse, than a religious zealot who claims the world belongs to a god.

Hitler thought the world was his.
So did Napoleon, Genghis Khan, Stalin, etc.



Thu Jan 17, 2019 10:40 am
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