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Ch. 1 through 3 of Hillbilly Elegy

#157: Jan. - Mar. 2018 (Non-Fiction)
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DWill

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Re: Ch. 1 through 3 of Hillbilly Elegy

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Robert Tulip wrote:The question is why hillbilly culture has shifted from Democrat to Republican.

In telling the story of his grandparents, Vance says they had “an almost religious faith in hard work and the American Dream. Neither was under any illusion that wealth or privilege didn’t matter in America… Papaw became a committed Democrat … ‘not all rich people were bad, but all bad people were rich.’.. Losers think the deck is stacked… You can do anything you want’ … Their community shared this faith.”
What are you suggesting, Robert?

Vance's use of anecdote to support his conclusions lead to inconsistencies. In Chapter 5 he cites a Kentucky man with an allergy to work.
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Robert Tulip

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Re: Ch. 1 through 3 of Hillbilly Elegy

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DWill wrote:What are you suggesting, Robert?
The ethos of success through work was previously associated with the politics of the Democrats, but over recent decades this ethos has been supported more effectively by the Republicans, who have sought to portray the Democrats as a party for spongers. Hence the hillbilly shift.
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Re: Ch. 1 through 3 of Hillbilly Elegy

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Robert Tulip wrote:The ethos of success through work was previously associated with the politics of the Democrats, but over recent decades this ethos has been supported more effectively by the Republicans,
I don't think that is a very good characterization of the alignments. Both Democrats and Republicans have at times been identified with small business and farmers, for example. The Democrats put forward a version friendly to labor unions, and succeeded in blaming Big Business for the plight of ordinary farmers. Only when the Republicans also joined this bandwagon in the time of Taft and Teddy Roosevelt was anything done, and that was mainly about limiting the power of corporations rather than empowering workers.

The industrial power of workers was held off by brutal suppression and by higher pay, most notably as led by Ford. The stick and the carrot. When the Great Depression hit in full force, all bets were off and labor was at last given the power to bargain collectively. At that point the nation was something like 60 percent Democrat, but Republicans yielded the issue, as well as Social Security (the government old-age pension) and made a comeback on other grounds.

Astonishingly, the Republican establishment is still trying to oppose Social Security (and its upstart cousin, Medicare) by portraying any government assistance as "sponging". That is where Ted Cruz and the "Liberty Caucus" is coming from, though they know enough not to say it explicitly.

There is a strong belief in self-reliance in American working class culture. But outside the South this was not seen as in any way limiting labor unions or de-legitimizing them. My understanding is that in the South the elites were successful in portraying labor unions as pro-black, and this combined with the independent streak of the Scots-Irish culture among the less educated to make an ethos against unions take root.

My parents make an interesting case. My father, working class to the bone, was a bus driver with a strong union. As a result we were able to move to a suburb with good schools. But my strongly Republican mother (although not so much since Reagan) never stopped believing there was something not quite legitimate about striking for higher pay. She blames union overreach for the demise of the company's high pay, but corporate takeovers and union-busting clearly played at least as strong a role.
Robert Tulip wrote: who have sought to portray the Democrats as a party for spongers. Hence the hillbilly shift.
Research recently cited by Thomas Edsall in the NYTimes shows that people are much more likely to oppose government assistance when they perceive it as going to "other" groups. Thus the Fox News axis of evil works their dog whistles relentlessly to use anecdote as "evidence" that "those other people" are the ones that government assistance is about (and of course, that "those other people" are undeserving.) It's all about the wedge. The fact that welfare benefits have gone mainly to whites from the beginning, along with the fact that it has always had a high rate of "graduation" to getting along without welfare, get conveniently swept under the rug in their construction of reality.

That said, welfare reform in the 90s was not such a terrible idea. In execution is was too rushed and not supportive enough (Northern states who actually provided transition support achieved high rates of employment for former welfare indigents). The Southern states just wanted to punish "spongers" (which, in their ideology, means anyone getting assistance and most certainly any person of color getting assistance) and they have also reduced the welfare rolls, but with less happy results.

The politics have been shaking out differently since about the time of Ross Perot and Bill Clinton's first election. Unions opposed globalization, and globalization well and truly destroyed the power of industrial unions, as it was forecast to do. But automation has played a large role, probably at least as large (though I am suspicious of the economic studies behind these conclusions) as imports, in undermining that way of life. It is easy to point to anecdotes about the jobs moving, but the numbers say machines have taken at least as many jobs.

Self-reliance now has no rewarding path to turn to. If you are going to make it by learning coding, you are at minimum going to have to move to a big city, and probably you have to move to the coast. Neither traditional Republican nor traditional Democrat policies offer any underpinnings of a self-reliant life for the Middletowns of the old industrial landscape. Even a strong turn against free trade, which would cause lots of trouble with the international economy, would not bring very many jobs back to those small towns across what used to be the Industrial Heartland.

Trump tapped into the frustration over that case, aided by eight years of the longest and deepest slump since the 30s by a long shot, but those communities will not see any improvement. The young people will move out before they are trapped in houses with falling values, and the older folks will find opioids strangely consoling.

What does self-reliance look like now? Learn Chinese. Not because they are taking over, but because filling in all the niches of interesting lifestyle options is the future of the service sector. My kids are great fans of manga and anime, for example, not because Toyotas are great cars (although they are) but because it's fun.
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Re: Ch. 1 through 3 of Hillbilly Elegy

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Robert Tulip wrote:
DWill wrote:What are you suggesting, Robert?
The ethos of success through work was previously associated with the politics of the Democrats, but over recent decades this ethos has been supported more effectively by the Republicans, who have sought to portray the Democrats as a party for spongers. Hence the hillbilly shift.
It'll be hard to generalize on this, of course. We can say only that Kentucky has tended to vote Republican for several decades. It went for Bill Clinton twice. The same goes for the another bedrock Hillbilly state, West Virginia. As for why these states are now reliably red, a changing ethos of the parties is going to be the most difficult to demonstrate. I'm not saying it wouldn't be in the mix.

What Harry said about the significance of labor unions also makes sense. Unions attract Democrat voters. Vance's grandfather always identified with Democratic support for unions and the working man (except for time he voted for Reagan). When unions declined in strength, along with the coal industry, Democrats found it difficult to maintain the loyalty of workers through other channels. I think we have to then consider the effect of Democrats taking up the mantle of civil rights for blacks (reluctantly at first, needing to jettison their own segregationist past). After that came support for the rights of other neglected groups. In the early stages Republicans weren't particularly averse to this movement, if my memory serves me. But for quite a while now, the Democrats have been the party of inclusion (or the party of identity politics, if the negative spin is preferred). Republicans constantly strategize about how to be less white in order to survive as a party.

What can't be avoided is the reality of racism and xenophobia in the culture of which the book speaks. This would help explain the switch over to the Republican party but especially it helps explain why Trump won so big in KY and WV. Note I said 'helps' explain.

I have read all of the book, but it was over a year ago. I do not recall how much Vance himself talks about racism and xenophobia. Nothing stands out in my mind, so I'll see as I reread.
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Re: Ch. 1 through 3 of Hillbilly Elegy

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DWill wrote:I think we have to then consider the effect of Democrats taking up the mantle of civil rights for blacks (reluctantly at first, needing to jettison their own segregationist past). After that came support for the rights of other neglected groups. In the early stages Republicans weren't particularly averse to this movement, if my memory serves me.
Yes, the Democratic Party embrace of Civil Rights was somewhat reluctant. As far back as 1948, when Harry Truman let Hubert Humphrey give a keynote speech which denounced segregation at the Democratic party convention, prompting deep South Democrats to walk out and support Strom Thurmond on the "Dixiecrat" ticket, the Democrats twisted and turned in an effort to keep their racist white Southern backers while ending segregation and Jim Crow. In the end they lost the South, but the political result is still being played out.

Keep your eye on Nicki "take down the Confederate flag" Haley and Lindsey Graham. If they succeed in remaking the Republican party in the South from its dog-whistle racism to a responsible conservative party, they could yet outflank the Democrats in the suburbs.

Also yes, the Republicans supported Civil Rights in the 60s. Nelson Rockefeller was a notably enlightened centrist Republican, in the tradition of Willkie and the Tafts, not to mention Eisenhower. He was also Nixon's big competition in 1968. Afterward Nixon devised the "Southern Strategy" (based partly on Goldwater's success in the South, I expect) which succeeded in re-aligning the parties but has saddled the Republican party with the counter-culture of ignorance.
DWill wrote:What can't be avoided is the reality of racism and xenophobia in the culture of which the book speaks. This would help explain the switch over to the Republican party but especially it helps explain why Trump won so big in KY and WV.
Apparently West Virginia is the state with the highest aversion to immigrants, especially of color. At least that's what I recall from one of the recent analyses of immigration effects on the election. If jobs for blue-collar men come back strongly, I think all the white supremacist b.s. will fade. If the crisis continues, as currently looks likely, hillbilly culture can be expected to continue blaming non-white competition.
DWill wrote:I have read all of the book, but it was over a year ago. I do not recall how much Vance himself talks about racism and xenophobia.
I have read the whole thing in the last month. I don't think he addresses racism or xenophobia, but he succeeds in painting a picture of tribalism and sensitivity to insults (like the 47% or the Deplorables). I will watch as well.
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Re: Ch. 1 through 3 of Hillbilly Elegy

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Jethro goes to Washington
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Re: Ch. 1 through 3 of Hillbilly Elegy

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At the end of chapter 2 Vance tells us of the song Dwight Yoakam wrote about his own move from southern Kentucky. Vance tells us that the lyrics could have come straight out of Mamaw's diary:

"They thought readin', writin', Route 23 would take them to the good life that they had never seen;
They didn't know that old highway would lead them to the world of misery."

I'm still working my way through the book, but took some time to learn Yoakam's song which captures some elements of the book.
As I struggle to learn the guitar in my retirement, this is my version of Yoakam's song.
Reading, Writin', Route 23.MP3
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Re: Ch. 1 through 3 of Hillbilly Elegy

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Can't listen to the clip, LevV, but good for you to be taking up guitar. Picking up a new skill is something to think about for retirement. I've been in the retirement game for about 8 mos. One thing I'm finding is that when I worked I had to try to use my time effectively. I didn't always succeed, but the pressure helped. Now that the pressure is gone, I'm the best, or worst, fritterer of time I can think of. Focus, that's the thing.
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Re: Ch. 1 through 3 of Hillbilly Elegy

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Thanks for the encouragement DWill. It has become my favorite pastime giving me much enjoyment.

I still struggle with the operation of this site. After some editing I ended up with these messages I couldn't get rid of. The thing is, I am able to open and hear the recording on my computer. It opens in my "GrooveMusic" app.
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Re: Ch. 1 through 3 of Hillbilly Elegy

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LevV wrote:Thanks for the encouragement DWill. It has become my favorite pastime giving me much enjoyment.

I still struggle with the operation of this site. After some editing I ended up with these messages I couldn't get rid of. The thing is, I am able to open and hear the recording on my computer. It opens in my "GrooveMusic" app.
Wow, Levv. It sounds great. You're singing too? Nice job. You have a good voice for country music.

The Booktalk link gives me a "plug-in failed to load" message, but the MP3 downloaded fine to my computer.

I dabble with the guitar too, but I don't think I could play this song. I might give it a try anyway.
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