Online reading group and book discussion forum
  HOME ENTER FORUMS OUR BOOKS LINKS DONATE ADVERTISE CONTACT  
View unanswered posts | View active topics It is currently Sat Feb 24, 2018 3:12 pm





Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 21 posts ] • Topic evaluate: Evaluations: 0, 0.00 on the average.Evaluations: 0, 0.00 on the average.Evaluations: 0, 0.00 on the average.Evaluations: 0, 0.00 on the average.Evaluations: 0, 0.00 on the average.  Go to page Previous  1, 2
How and why can people ignore their God’s immoral ways? 
Author Message
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
BookTalk.org Hall of Fame

Gold Contributor

Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 5435
Location: Canberra
Thanks: 1950
Thanked: 1858 times in 1413 posts
Gender: Male
Country: Australia (au)

Post Re: How and why can people ignore their God’s immoral ways?
LanDroid wrote:
Please detail and justify the morality employed by the Christian Triune Deity known as Yahweh/Jesus/Holy Ghost during the Great Flood Genocide survived only by Noah's family and "two of every kind." Oh and the basis for the moral necessity to create the rainbow while you're at it...
From the Last Glacial Maximum to the dawn of the Holocene Era, the sea level rose by 125 metres, as shown in this chart.
Image
Such major changes, flooding the Persian Gulf and the North Sea, turning the Black Sea from fresh to salt, etc etc, are well remembered in mythology, although over long periods the detail of the myth changes in oral culture. Gilgamesh from Babylon also contains the flood myth, as does Agastya from India. Agastya is the same word as Argo and Ark, illustrating the etymological links across the Indo-European group of languages.

The increase of population density during the early Holocene was supported by technological progress, leading to the emergence of settled agriculture, metal and writing. This transformed culture also brought a transformed moral framework of society, with the old system of reverence for knowledgeable elders replaced by the power of swords and money.

The Noah Flood Myth serves as a statement by the knowers of the moral failure of the emerging value system. It reflects how broad swathes of coastline were obliterated, and uses this as a moral parable.

ETA: Here is a picture of the effect of the flood on India. Recall that Pleistocene India was settled as a coastal civilization, so it is probable that population density was highest in the flooded areas.
Image


_________________
http://rtulip.net


Last edited by Robert Tulip on Thu Jan 18, 2018 1:44 am, edited 1 time in total.



The following user would like to thank Robert Tulip for this post:
Harry Marks, Litwitlou
Thu Jan 18, 2018 1:37 am
Profile Email WWW
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
Stupendously Brilliant


Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 723
Thanks: 78
Thanked: 116 times in 103 posts
Gender: None specified

Post Re: How and why can people ignore their God’s immoral ways?
TEKennelly wrote:
Gnostic Bishop wrote:
Indeed.
Christianity has used their text to justify Inquisitions and Muslims use theirs to justify Jihad.

Nice text that are close to Mein Kampf.

Regards
DL


Really, the Bible is like "Mein Kampf"?

No doubt. They are both written texts. The Iliad is like the phone book and "Moby-Dick" is like the menu at Burger King. Thank you, Gnostic Bishop.


Uneducated I see.

Can you not picture Hitler saying the following of the Jews?

Luke 19:27 But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them—bring them here and kill them in front of me.

Yahweh and Allah are more tyrannical than any of the tyrants we have had to suffer, including Hitler.

At least Hitler is not as vile as his punishment stops with death, while the Gods promis to punish even more after death.

If you do not see that as one of the vilest concepts, your morals need adjusting.

Regards
DL



Thu Jan 18, 2018 10:35 am
Profile Email
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
Stupendously Brilliant


Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 723
Thanks: 78
Thanked: 116 times in 103 posts
Gender: None specified

Post Re: How and why can people ignore their God’s immoral ways?
LanDroid wrote:
Please detail and justify the morality employed by the Christian Triune Deity known as Yahweh/Jesus/Holy Ghost during the Great Flood Genocide survived only by Noah's family and "two of every kind." Oh and the basis for the moral necessity to create the rainbow while you're at it...


I cannot justify a God who can cure as well as kill, and always seems to kill instead of cure.

Satan has better morals, if you count the bodies killed in scriptures.

Regards
DL



Thu Jan 18, 2018 10:38 am
Profile Email
Atop the Piled Books


Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 38
Thanks: 3
Thanked: 21 times in 20 posts
Gender: None specified

Post Re: How and why can people ignore their God’s immoral ways?
LanDroid wrote:
Please detail and justify the morality employed by the Christian Triune Deity known as Yahweh/Jesus/Holy Ghost during the Great Flood Genocide survived only by Noah's family and "two of every kind." Oh and the basis for the moral necessity to create the rainbow while you're at it...


It is a story written for our edification (or so we are told). It does not look like an historical narrative.
Every Biblical story is not useful with respect to every question and some stories (such as the Flood) are making a point or points that we are not inclined to consider. There is the suggestion in the story that human evil is a profound problem (which of course it is), but this is revealed by way of the evil of God Himself. It is deeply troubling. There is a fairly good modern work which treats this problem of the evil of God: Jung's "Answer to Job". I recommend it quite soberly.
There is another work I will suggest along similar lines: Girard's "I Saw Satan Fall". Neither work defends the narrative of genocide (there is of course no defense for it) but the works put the problem evil and in particular evil connected (by supposition or narrative) to God in a new context.

This does not answer your question, but it does provide some possibility of giving the problem further consideration.



Mon Jan 22, 2018 10:49 am
Profile Email
Atop the Piled Books


Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 38
Thanks: 3
Thanked: 21 times in 20 posts
Gender: None specified

Post Re: How and why can people ignore their God’s immoral ways?
Gnostic Bishop wrote:
TEKennelly wrote:
Gnostic Bishop wrote:
Indeed.
Christianity has used their text to justify Inquisitions and Muslims use theirs to justify Jihad.

Nice text that are close to Mein Kampf.

Regards
DL


Really, the Bible is like "Mein Kampf"?

No doubt. They are both written texts. The Iliad is like the phone book and "Moby-Dick" is like the menu at Burger King. Thank you, Gnostic Bishop.


Uneducated I see.

Can you not picture Hitler saying the following of the Jews?

Luke 19:27 But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them—bring them here and kill them in front of me.

Yahweh and Allah are more tyrannical than any of the tyrants we have had to suffer, including Hitler.

At least Hitler is not as vile as his punishment stops with death, while the Gods promise to punish even more after death.

If you do not see that as one of the vilest concepts, your morals need adjusting.

Regards
DL


Luke 19:27, in context, looks like the closing line of a parable. There are numerous stories from Jesus about the need to love and forgive your neighbor which are completely at odds with the hate that is characteristic of Hitler's writings and the activity which was his life.

I do not tend to think in terms of eternal punishment after death. I deem the teaching essentially exoteric, or given to persuade people to love and follow the command to love.



The following user would like to thank TEKennelly for this post:
Harry Marks
Mon Jan 22, 2018 11:05 am
Profile Email
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
Stupendously Brilliant


Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 723
Thanks: 78
Thanked: 116 times in 103 posts
Gender: None specified

Post Re: How and why can people ignore their God’s immoral ways?
TEKennelly wrote:
[

Really, the Bible is like "Mein Kampf"?

No doubt. They are both written texts. The Iliad is like the phone book and "Moby-Dick" is like the menu at Burger King. Thank you, Gnostic Bishop.


Uneducated I see.

Can you not picture Hitler saying the following of the Jews?

Luke 19:27 But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them—bring them here and kill them in front of me.

Yahweh and Allah are more tyrannical than any of the tyrants we have had to suffer, including Hitler.

At least Hitler is not as vile as his punishment stops with death, while the Gods promise to punish even more after death.

If you do not see that as one of the vilest concepts, your morals need adjusting.

Regards
DL[/quote]

Luke 19:27, in context, looks like the closing line of a parable. There are numerous stories from Jesus about the need to love and forgive your neighbor which are completely at odds with the hate that is characteristic of Hitler's writings and the activity which was his life.

I do not tend to think in terms of eternal punishment after death. I deem the teaching essentially exoteric, or given to persuade people to love and follow the command to love.[/quote]

Can you be commanded to love someone?

I doubt it.

Can you love your enemy? Your enemy might be rapping your wife. Can you love him?

As the song says, there is a time to love and a time to hate.

If God himself loved us all, he would cure us and not kill us or torture us in hell without any end game of making us worthy for heaven and scriptures do not indicate any way to get out of hell.

Regards
DL



Mon Jan 22, 2018 11:24 am
Profile Email
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 21 posts ] • Topic evaluate: Evaluations: 0, 0.00 on the average.Evaluations: 0, 0.00 on the average.Evaluations: 0, 0.00 on the average.Evaluations: 0, 0.00 on the average.Evaluations: 0, 0.00 on the average.  Go to page Previous  1, 2



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 9 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:

BookTalk.org Newsletter 



Site Resources 
HELPFUL INFO:
Forum Rules & Tips
Frequently Asked Questions
BBCode Explained
Author Interview Transcripts
Be a Book Discussion Leader!

IDEAS FOR WHAT TO READ:
Bestsellers
Book Awards
• Book Reviews
• Online Books
• Team Picks
Newspaper Book Sections

WHERE TO BUY BOOKS:
• Great resource pages are coming!

BEHIND THE BOOKS:
• Great resource pages are coming!

PROMOTE YOUR BOOK!
Advertise on BookTalk.org
How To Promote Your Book

Featured Books

Books by New Authors


*

FACTS is a select group of active BookTalk.org members passionate about promoting Freethought, Atheism, Critical Thinking and Science.

Apply to join FACTS
See who else is in FACTS







BookTalk.org is a thriving book discussion forum, online reading group or book club. We read and talk about both fiction and non-fiction books as a community. Our forums are open to anyone in the world. While discussing books is our passion we also have active forums for talking about poetry, short stories, writing and authors. Our general discussion forum section includes forums for discussing science, religion, philosophy, politics, history, current events, arts, entertainment and more. We hope you join us!


Navigation 
MAIN NAVIGATION

HOMEFORUMSOUR BOOKSAUTHOR INTERVIEWSADVERTISELINKSFAQDONATETERMS OF USEPRIVACY POLICYSITEMAP

OTHER PAGES WORTH EXPLORING
Banned Book ListMassimo Pigliucci Rationally SpeakingOnline Reading GroupTop 10 Atheism Books

Copyright © BookTalk.org 2002-2017. All rights reserved.
Display Pagerank