DB Roy's thread here actually gave me an idea that I think is worth considering. There are useful web sites that give overviews of science (without tackling Creationist beliefs per se). Here's one that discusses evolution:
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/2015 ... ution-101/
And here's a couple that give overviews on climate science:
http://climate.nasa.gov/evidence/
https://www3.epa.gov/climatechange/scie ... rview.html
It seems a good bet that National Geographic and NASA are mainstream, credible organizations and that these scientific articles are trustworthy. If one's political or religious beliefs are at odds with such mainstream views, that should probably be seen as a red flag and, more importantly, an opportunity for self reflection. I use my own experience as a global warming skeptic as an example here. At some point, I realized that my own skepticism was somewhat out of step with NASA's and National Geographic's! That seems pretty arrogant. It comes down to Occam's razor. Is it more likely that I'm right or National Geographic?
In this day of rampant Google bias and create your own reality, it's all too easy to find blogs or articles that agree with what we already believe. But when it comes to science, looking at the consensus can be a valuable reality test. Obviously seeing what the consensus is only a starting point. To become more informed requires an open mind and a willingness to learn.
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Useful scientific resources to silence fools
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Re: Useful scientific resources to silence fools
Hi Flann, here's a vid I thought you would enjoy though I'm pretty sure you would have seen all the Berlinski stuff before.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VHeSaUq-Hl8
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VHeSaUq-Hl8
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Re: Useful scientific resources to silence fools
Thanks Youkrst.youkrst wrote:Hi Flann, here's a vid I thought you would enjoy though I'm pretty sure you would have seen all the Berlinski stuff before.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VHeSaUq-Hl8
As you know there is far more to biology than mutations and natural selection as those seeking an extended synthesis have been at pains to demonstrate.
In fact there has been a significant move to produce a kind of agoritm generated virtual evolution. Something Berlinski alluded to.This has created a disconnect from actual organisms and their immensely complex interactions with the environment.
What genetics and studies at the biochemical level have revealed is layers of complexity with regulatory networks for example. So what is emerging is greater complexity at the 'simplest' level.
This makes attempts to come up with pathways to a naturalistic accidental origin of life all the more daunting. As John Lennox put it, science doesn't always close gaps but can widen them and this seems to be the case with origin of life.
I have no antagonism to scientific research and despite my limited grasp of these things find them extremely interesting.
http://www.thenewatlantis.com/publicati ... -machinery
Last edited by Flann 5 on Tue May 31, 2016 9:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Useful scientific resources to silence fools
Because in their ignorance, the bronze age authors honestly believed there was only a single continent? Or they thought god made more water to bury everything? I'd have to see the source material to see your point I guess.Flann wrote:So how did the author who would have known at the time of writing,that there were different continents and oceans get this right?
You make it sound as if there's a chance the flood happened as described by the bible. Technically, I guess there's a chance. There's also a chance the sun will blow up in the next few seconds. It's a fantasy story.Uniformitarianism has been in the ascendancy for a long time now, however catastrophism is making a comeback among mainstream geologists.
This is the crucial difference. Were the sedimentary rock layers laid down very slowly or rapidly or perhaps a combination of both?
http://ncse.com/cej/1/1/fatal-flaws-flood-geology
https://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/6flood.htm
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Global_flood
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Re: Useful scientific resources to silence fools
Like you Interbane I'm a layman when it comes to issues of geology and hydro-dynamics. The point I was making is that geologists have been increasingly forced to move from absolute uniformitarianism to catastrophism in many case.Interbane wrote:You make it sound as if there's a chance the flood happened as described by the bible. Technically, I guess there's a chance. There's also a chance the sun will blow up in the next few seconds. It's a fantasy story.
http://ncse.com/cej/1/1/fatal-flaws-flood-geology
For polystrate fossils such as trees mainstream geologists accept, if I understand correctly,that this is explained in their view by flooding by rivers. In these cases the rock strata can not be taken to be the result of gradual accumulation over thousands of years.
Likewise the process of fossilization requires rapid deposition of sediment. It's reasonable then to wonder how strata containing these fossils can be said to be due to gradual formation over aeons of time.
http://www.scienceagainstevolution.org/v10i6n.htm
http://www.earthage.org/EarthOldorYoung ... _flood.htm
As far as Noah's flood is concerned there are good biblical scholars who interpret the account as being metonyme. I.e a part is taken as the whole. While this is a valid approach it seems to me that the passages demand a global rather than local interpretation.
But not everyone thinks so.
I think the uniformitarians raise valid objections to taking the geological column as explained entirely by a single global flood.
By the same token there are serious objections to the uniformitarian interpretation also.
There's also the matter of all these flood legends from diverse parts of the world.While this could be construed to mean that they refer to major local regional floods there appears to be too many incidental similarities to take them this way.
http://apologeticspress.org/apcontent.a ... article=64
As D.B has taken to belittle creationist views as foolish what I believe I'm providing are reasonable arguments in favour of the biblical account
.
It's often asked how these animals or their descendants got to Australia or Timbuku from the ark,so it's worth comparing the explanations for bio-geography from both camps.
There's no absolute certainty on this particular question,but what is more likely or probable?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pAjpbwH8teo
Last edited by Flann 5 on Thu Jun 02, 2016 3:25 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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Re: Useful scientific resources to silence fools
I'm sorry Flann. That the entire world flooded is ridiculous. I won't humor your arguments.
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Re: Useful scientific resources to silence fools
O.k. Interbane. It's seems to me that the fundamental dogma of macro-evolution permeates education and the popular mass media. So much so that any scientific challenges to it are discounted almost by automatic reflex as being absurd or ignorance.Interbane wrote:I'm sorry Flann. That the entire world flooded is ridiculous. I won't humor your arguments.
The rational skepticism so much vaunted is never applied to this. Question everything except this sacred cow. For those who may think that there are real questions to be asked, and unsatisfactory answers given, there is no shortage of solidly science based reasons available for rejecting it.
I'll leave it at just one more example. Something fishy about this whole story.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PtqdZKeyY1Y
Last edited by Flann 5 on Fri Jun 03, 2016 9:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Useful scientific resources to silence fools
It's not dogma, and it's not a sacred cow. Those are your projections.Flann wrote:It's seems to me that the fundamental dogma of macro-evolution permeates education and the popular mass media.
It's knowledge derived from the best methods we have at filtering fact from fiction. The only way to overcome this is to follow the same methods and come to a stronger conclusion. The closest any alternative has come is a drop of water versus an ocean.
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Re: Useful scientific resources to silence fools
The difference between science and religion is that if the bible had insisted that there was no global deluge and that any religion that said there was is false, the fundies here wouldn't be saying a word about any flood and would argue vociferously and endlessly with anyone who differed with them on that point.