In Chapter 2, Carl bravely states that spirituality is just matter, it can all be explained by science. I suppose that is true in a sense as humans can only experience things in the material world. I also know that Carl Saga is beyond asking now, but perhaps one of his fans can explain how the following story is explainable by science.

This is a true story. I know Jim, have known him for decades. He told the story to me personally.

Jim was a missionary with a major denomination in the United States. His primary focus was on mainland China. Churches, Christianity, Bibles, missionaries have been proscribed by that government for decades. The degree of difficulty Christians experience varies according to the communist official in charge in the particular area. Jim would visit the mainland for extended periods once each year. During one visit he planned to visit an area notorious for the iron fisted official. Jim and the local Christians had been praying for months in anticipation of the visit. Within hours of arriving in the area the official confronted Jim on a street corner and told him he and the Church members with him were under arrest. And that he planned to root-out all the Christians in his district by getting their names from the arrestees by whatever means necessary. Then, nothing happened. Absolutely nothing. Jim kept waiting for the official to order the police with him to take them into custody but he didn't say anything. Jim realized the official wasn't moving. The men with the official noticed it too and started asking for instructions but the official said nothing. They tapped him, nothing. Nothing they did got any response, verbal or physical. Finally the police wandered away and Jim and his friends left. The official stood frozen in place for over 24 hours. Birds landed on him and did what birds do to statues. The locals, who all feared him, came and laughed at him. After more than 24 hours the official unfroze and left the area.

Explain this.

Stahrwe wrote:This is a true story. I know Jim, have known him for decades. He told the story to me personally.

Therefore it's true! Did this happen before the age of video cameras?

Explain this.

it's the power of God

the Holy Spirit obviously froze those guys to protect His blessed children doing the Lord's work.

of course he allowed a heap of other christians to be tortured to death so obviously their faith was weak or they had sin in their lives

or perhaps God just moves or doesn't move in mysterious ways

The last post was strictly for the purpose of ridicule.

It's trolling.

I've got it.

Interbane, An interesting and informing question.

In fact I believe it might have been before video cameras but even if it wasn't Jim would not have used one, or a still camera, to document the official's predicament for a number of reasons;

1) Americans were watched as it was, carrying a camera would only serve to call more unwanted attention to him if it wasn't illegal to have one and film in the country. It probably would have been confiscated at customs.

2) It would be totally STUPID as well as useless to have a video or any other camera. One did not take pictures of church meetings or members as such pictures could result in arrest and long jail sentences if they fell into the hands of the government.

3) If the official had been documented on film and those pictures were compromised the consequences would be severe.

4) Finances for missionaries are very limited. Money for cameras would be spent instead for medicine, clothes, shoes, glasses, Bibles, or hundreds of other needed items to take with him.

5) The Christians he visited were very poor. They would had starved if they spent money on cameras.


As odd as it may seem Jim isn't interested in proving his story, as if a video or photographs would be accepted as proof. I submit that Interbane would not accept either as proof. When he told me the story he was telling it believing it happened only because he saw it.

Jim is a man of integrity. He is a strong Christian who has sacrificed for his work. He no longer visits China. His last visit ended prematurely and abruptly as he was spirited out when the local Christians got word that the police were on their way, at that very moment, to the meeting to arrest him.

He made many friends in China. Friends he cannot visit or contact lest they be put in danger.


You may believe the story or not at your own risk.

at your own risk.

indeed

Stahrwe wrote:As odd as it may seem Jim isn't interested in proving his story, as if a video or photographs would be accepted as proof. I submit that Interbane would not accept either as proof. When he told me the story he was telling it believing it happened only because he saw it.

Jim is a man of integrity. He is a strong Christian who has sacrificed for his work. He no longer visits China. His last visit ended prematurely and abruptly as he was spirited out when the local Christians got word that the police were on their way, at that very moment, to the meeting to arrest him.

He made many friends in China. Friends he cannot visit or contact lest they be put in danger.


You may believe the story or not at your own risk.

I don't believe the story.

There is a great deal that doesn't mesh with how I know the world works. I know that people simply don't pause for extended periods of time, especially when it is contrary to the person's motive. It simply doesn't happen. You would first have to convince me this story happened before I'd even begin to hypothesize about medical conditions or any other potential explanation.

That doesn't mean I think it's impossible. It simply means I need more than a second hand anecdote on an internet forum to believe. A second hand anecdote on a forum is not even close to proof. Alone, it doesn't even count as evidence. It's an initial claim, from my point of view, and isn't enough to convince me I even need to seek evidence. Speaking of proof is jumping a dozen steps ahead.

ant wrote:The last post was strictly for the purpose of ridicule.

It's trolling.

no ant, it was simply to point out the inherent flaw in saying the Lord froze those guys to protect His missionaries whilst not even thinking how you would explain the many christians He did absolutely nothing to protect from rape, torture, execution etc etc

sheesh i thought it was obvious the point i was trying to make but perhaps it was a little too subtle for you.

if i was trolling anyone it would be the Lord, but strangely He doesn't seem to mind, it's people like you that get all bent out of shape on your self righteous horse.

Of course you can't believe it.