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The Zodiac in Leonardo Da Vinci's Last Supper

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ant

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Re: The Zodiac in Leonardo Da Vinci's Last Supper

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Look at a quote from the author of the blog you provided a link for Interbane:
Second, there is another Renaissance work that sheds some light on the issue. (Though I am by no means an art critic, I did have a college history course entitledRenaissance and Reformation
The author had a college history course about the Italian Renaissance.
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Re: The Zodiac in Leonardo Da Vinci's Last Supper

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Robert Tulip wrote:
ant wrote:
Its also the finger that "the doubting Thomas" inspected Christ's wound with after his resurrection, which is consistent with what Thomas is primarily known for and adds to the narrative.


Good point, except that ignores the fact the finger is pointing to heaven and stuffs the science into the ignorant shape of traditional blind faith.
A bit too obvious I suppose Robert.
Well you know some people see all sorts of strange things in art with Christian subject matter. And I suppose one weird theory is as good as the next if we are subjective enough.Here's a mushroom oriented one. www.youtube.com/watch?v=cEmNIz08gis Jesus was a mushroom! You know it makes sense.
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Re: The Zodiac in Leonardo Da Vinci's Last Supper

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I cant view the video from my phone for some reason, Flann.

Anyway, I suspect what also is in play here is another attempt to distance a genius of the past from the spirit of traditional Christianity, and or traditional religion itself.
Other giants of the past are often "recruited" by atheists in an effort to posterize their worldview.
You see this happen to men like Voltaire and Newton. Although not traditional men of religion nevertheless they rejected an atheistic worldview.

Why not Leonardo as well? Promote him as some type of closet platonist!

Also, an honest assessment includes the examination of data that does not support your contention.
That obviously is not what Robert is attempting here. Not in the least.

And lets not forget I am arguing here like a YEC!

:slap:
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Re: The Zodiac in Leonardo Da Vinci's Last Supper

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author had a college history course
Ant, ad hominem attacks of this sort are really unbecoming and reinforce impressions that you are here either for the fly fishing or to catch billygoats on bridges. Play the ball, not the man. I could equally point out that I disagree with some of the views expressed in that article, but my disagreements are not relevant to the substantive point - the motif of the finger pointing to heaven is a symbol of eternal truth. Indeed, the way Raphael depicted Plato as looking like Leonardo strongly reinforces this point about the central theme of the relation between eternity and time as a core issue in Renaissance culture and philosophy, seen in these great paintings.

I am glad you raised the point about Thomas and doubt. Doubt is a central theme in the scientific method, of which Leonardo was one of the great pioneering geniuses. My reading here is that Leonardo painted Thomas pointing to the heavens partly to illustrate how The Last Supper invites us to doubt conventional religious beliefs. But then, for people like you who have no need of doubt, I don't expect that reading to butter many parsnips.

A further point about how the annual path of the sun links eternity and time is that this path is still basically the same as in Leonardo's day, as a symbol of eternal stability and identity, but it is also constantly changing through the regular patterns of climate and weather. So this symbol of the natural year has the same function as Jesus Christ - who is understood in traditional orthodox Christology as unifying time and eternity. The historical Jesus of Nazareth is conventionally the same person as the Eternal Christ of Glory.

Oh, and by the way, here are Leonardo's self portrait and Raphael's depiction of Plato, which that article suggested are similar.

Image

Image
Last edited by Robert Tulip on Sun Oct 19, 2014 8:59 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: The Zodiac in Leonardo Da Vinci's Last Supper

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If you google "hidden meaning/symbols in The Last Supper" you get hundreds of hits that link you to various kooks that claim to have found something mysterious in Leonardo's famous masterpiece.

One that I thought was pretty neat was this one:

http://m.neatorama.com/2007/11/11/hidde ... st-supper/

The Apostles, represented in groups of three, gave him a hint that the piece should be played in 3/4-time, like much 15th-century music. But it was their hands, always in relation to the breads on the table, that provided the real score -- to be read from right to left, in line with Leonardo's writing.
There are a few hits about hidden astrological signs as well.
And of course, everyone by now is familiar with the bogus claims of "The Davince Code"

I think those that advance the notion there are hidden astrological signs in the Last Supper are astrologists who continue to desperately promote astrology as science, when in fact it is no such thing.

Also, astrologists, like Robert Tulip, are ultimately interested in developing new horoscopes to promote to their loyal followers. Quite depressing :no:

Anyway, when anyone has the time, google some of the this craziness.
It's very entertaining. :lol:
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Re: The Zodiac in Leonardo Da Vinci's Last Supper

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The best you can do here is to be agnostic. Unless and until you find corroborating evidence that shines light on the author's intent. This is why interpretation of the bible and other holy texts fails. Interpretation and pattern seeking are useless unless you can show the author intended the results. This includes proving the interpretation vs disproving the interpretation. We're stuck in the middle without corroboration.
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Re: The Zodiac in Leonardo Da Vinci's Last Supper

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There is corroborating evidence that shows the authors intent.
I've posted some of it here.

Youre too busy jumping to the defense of friends and not doing any serious research about this.


The people of BT who engage in discussions like these have become so fixated with defending personal beliefs that they are not aware of their childish and idiotic behavior that is unwelcoming to others who wish to share their worldviews.

I have presented historical FACTS whenever there has been whig history presented to ridicule religious history.
I've also rejected the claims of certain popularized atheists of today. They are not engaging in philosophy of science.

I will credit you and give you your due by acknowledging that you and only you AT LEAST recognized instances wherein I presented ideas that refute most of these stupid popularized aesthetic notions that anyone can purchase off a book rack in an airport lobby.

Robert is too contaminated by his religious scientism.
Everyone else here is just ignorant about a lot of what we talk about.

What was popular here before I came aboard was stupid bumper sticker slogans and caricatures of religious people.
It was really quite an adolescent group.

I'm not impressed by people who are only parroting what they read.
That's really not a sign of intelligence or education.

Thanks for being so patient with me, Interbane.
Good bye for now.
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Re: The Zodiac in Leonardo Da Vinci's Last Supper

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There is corroborating evidence that shows the authors intent.
I've posted some of it here.

Youre too busy jumping to the defense of friends and not doing any serious research about this.
My post was as much a disagreement with Robert as it was with you. Show me this evidence, from Leonardo DaVinci, where he expressly says his painting does not contain hidden astrological symbolism. I've been reading this thread, and you haven't provided any such evidence. A man can have a thousand intentions with a single piece of art. Listing many of them does not exclude others.
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Re: The Zodiac in Leonardo Da Vinci's Last Supper

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Interbane wrote:
There is corroborating evidence that shows the authors intent.
I've posted some of it here.

Youre too busy jumping to the defense of friends and not doing any serious research about this.
My post was as much a disagreement with Robert as it was with you. Show me this evidence, from Leonardo DaVinci, where he expressly says his painting does not contain hidden astrological symbolism. I've been reading this thread, and you haven't provided any such evidence. A man can have a thousand intentions with a single piece of art. Listing many of them does not exclude others.

Ridiculous
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Re: The Zodiac in Leonardo Da Vinci's Last Supper

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A man can have a thousand intentions with a single piece of art. Listing many of them does not exclude others.
The above is actually a great insight.
And you are right, now that I think about it.

Any idiot, while attempting to interpret CERTAIN art, can direct his discovery process in a thousand different directions and arrive at nearly a thousand utterly ridiculous interpretations.

A good starting point to avoid a scatter-brained method would be to start with context, both personal and social, then attempt to arrive at the most likely explanation.


But someone here is defending the scatter-brained approach for personal reasons.

:bananadance:
Last edited by ant on Fri Nov 07, 2014 1:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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