Online reading group and book discussion forum
  HOME ENTER FORUMS OUR BOOKS LINKS DONATE ADVERTISE CONTACT  
View unanswered posts | View active topics It is currently Wed Oct 16, 2019 2:51 pm





Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 7 posts ] • Topic evaluate: Evaluations: 0, 0.00 on the average.Evaluations: 0, 0.00 on the average.Evaluations: 0, 0.00 on the average.Evaluations: 0, 0.00 on the average.Evaluations: 0, 0.00 on the average. 
IV. What There Isn't - "Sense and Goodness Without God" 
Author Message
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
BookTalk.org Hall of Fame

BookTalk.org Owner
Diamond Contributor 3

Joined: May 2002
Posts: 16150
Location: Florida
Thanks: 3484
Thanked: 1319 times in 1041 posts
Gender: Male
Country: United States (us)

 IV. What There Isn't - "Sense and Goodness Without God"
IV. What There Isn't - "Sense and Goodness Without God"

This thread is where can discuss the section entitled "What There Isn't" from "Send and Goodness Without God."



Mon Aug 18, 2014 9:50 am
Profile Email WWW
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
BookTalk.org Hall of Fame

BookTalk.org Moderator
Gold Contributor

Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 7054
Location: Da U.P.
Thanks: 1074
Thanked: 2068 times in 1660 posts
Gender: Male
Country: United States (us)

Post Re: IV. What There Isn't - "Sense and Goodness Without God"
In the beginning of this section, Carrier gives a brief introduction to determinism and compatibilist free will. I agree with most of what he says, and where I think I disagree has to do with definitions of words. But in that respect, I'm likely wrong.

He explores the concept of time, what it would mean to exist outside of time, and how our perception at various points in the light cone vary. Part of this exploration involves a problem Daniel Lane Craig has with the concept of time.


_________________
In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and has been widely regarded as a bad move.” - Douglas Adams


Tue Aug 19, 2014 11:32 am
Profile
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
Book Aficionado

BookTalk.org Moderator
Silver Contributor 2

Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 1761
Thanks: 154
Thanked: 730 times in 548 posts
Gender: Male

Post Re: IV. What There Isn't - "Sense and Goodness Without God"
Whoa, slow down. You atheists are in a big damn hurry considering you believe in nothing.



Tue Aug 19, 2014 5:42 pm
Profile Email
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
BookTalk.org Hall of Fame

Gold Contributor

Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 5481
Thanks: 1302
Thanked: 889 times in 763 posts
Gender: None specified
Country: United States (us)

Post Re: IV. What There Isn't - "Sense and Goodness Without God"
Dexter wrote:
Whoa, slow down. You atheists are in a big damn hurry considering you believe in nothing.


According to Robert, atheists BELIEVE God does not exist.

Unless of course Robert's atheism is not your atheism
So why does he call himself an atheist?

And what about that podcast host who interviewed Richard Dawkins?
He's an atheist who believes atheists have "the moral high ground" over theists.
Atheism simply means no belief in a deities. It's not a moral system of any kind, right?
Does that mean he isn't an atheist either?

All these people calling themselves atheists that aren't even atheists!

Sounds like religious people claiming there religion the one TRUE religion.

Will the real atheists please step forward?!



Last edited by ant on Wed Aug 20, 2014 1:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Wed Aug 20, 2014 1:54 pm
Profile Email
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
BookTalk.org Hall of Fame

BookTalk.org Moderator
Gold Contributor

Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 7054
Location: Da U.P.
Thanks: 1074
Thanked: 2068 times in 1660 posts
Gender: Male
Country: United States (us)

Post Re: IV. What There Isn't - "Sense and Goodness Without God"
Quote:
According to Robert, atheists BELIEVE God does not exist.

Unless of course Robert's atheism is not your atheism
So why does he call himself an atheist?


Because, as Carrier argues, there are multiple(hundreds/thousands) lines of inquiry that all converge onto worldviews that are purely naturalistic, using proven methods. Belief in a worldview where there is no god is justified by these methods, and by the converging lines of inquiry.


_________________
In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and has been widely regarded as a bad move.” - Douglas Adams


Wed Aug 20, 2014 3:37 pm
Profile
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
BookTalk.org Hall of Fame

BookTalk.org Moderator
Gold Contributor

Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 7054
Location: Da U.P.
Thanks: 1074
Thanked: 2068 times in 1660 posts
Gender: Male
Country: United States (us)

Post Re: IV. What There Isn't - "Sense and Goodness Without God"
My original post was mistaken. The section on compatibilist free will was in chapter 3. I'll give the primary sections of this chapter below, and any thoughts if I have them. Again, I find myself agreeing with nearly everything that is said, so much of it slips from memory. Someone who disagrees may have to add some commentary.

IV.1. Not Much Place for the Paranormal

IV.1.1. Science and the Supernatural

IV.1.2.1. The Rain Miracle of Marcus Aurelius

IV.1.2.5. The Argument from Evidence

IV.1.2.7. Prophecy and History


An interesting application of the methods of historical inquiry into the veracity of prophecies. He uses one of the more famous examples.

IV.2.2.2. To the Victor Goes the Spoil (Religion Didn’t Win by Playing Fair)

This section will not be taken well by Flann and ant. I agree with everything that's said, but only the negatives are included. The positives aren't included, and that will likely polarize some readers. Not that I think the positives outweigh the negatives, as I've recently mentioned in another thread.

IV.2.2.4. Religion as Medicine

This is an interesting metaphor, and I highly recommend this section to Robert. It's a concept I've repeated to him quite a few times.

IV.2.7. Anything Defended with Such Absurdities Must be False

Yep.


_________________
In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and has been widely regarded as a bad move.” - Douglas Adams


Wed Aug 20, 2014 8:56 pm
Profile
User avatar
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
BookTalk.org Hall of Fame

BookTalk.org Moderator
Gold Contributor

Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 7054
Location: Da U.P.
Thanks: 1074
Thanked: 2068 times in 1660 posts
Gender: Male
Country: United States (us)

Post Re: IV. What There Isn't - "Sense and Goodness Without God"
At the tail end of this chapter there is a portion that made me laugh out loud. It is regarding the second formulation of the argument from free will in explanation of why god appears to be inactive or nonexistent, let alone having even a small amount of undeniable presence in our world.

The argument is that if god allowed himself to be seen in a more certain fashion, it would take away our free will, since we would then no longer have any reason to disbelieve.

I think this was an argument Stahrwe repeated at one point, though I'm not sure. Pure lunacy.


_________________
In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and has been widely regarded as a bad move.” - Douglas Adams


Thu Aug 21, 2014 11:20 am
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 7 posts ] • Topic evaluate: Evaluations: 0, 0.00 on the average.Evaluations: 0, 0.00 on the average.Evaluations: 0, 0.00 on the average.Evaluations: 0, 0.00 on the average.Evaluations: 0, 0.00 on the average. 



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:

Announcements 

• Promote Your Fiction Book on BookTalk.org
Sun Jul 30, 2017 7:33 pm

• Promote Your Non-Fiction Book on BookTalk.org
Sun Jul 30, 2017 7:18 pm



Site Resources 
HELPFUL INFO:
Forum Rules & Tips
Frequently Asked Questions
BBCode Explained
Author Interview Transcripts
Be a Book Discussion Leader!

IDEAS FOR WHAT TO READ:
Bestsellers
Book Awards
• Book Reviews
• Online Books
• Team Picks
Newspaper Book Sections

WHERE TO BUY BOOKS:
• Great resource pages are coming!

BEHIND THE BOOKS:
• Great resource pages are coming!

PROMOTE YOUR BOOK!
Advertise on BookTalk.org
How To Promote Your Book





BookTalk.org is a thriving book discussion forum, online reading group or book club. We read and talk about both fiction and non-fiction books as a community. Our forums are open to anyone in the world. While discussing books is our passion we also have active forums for talking about poetry, short stories, writing and authors. Our general discussion forum section includes forums for discussing science, religion, philosophy, politics, history, current events, arts, entertainment and more. We hope you join us!


Navigation 
MAIN NAVIGATION

HOMEFORUMSOUR BOOKSAUTHOR INTERVIEWSADVERTISELINKSFAQDONATETERMS OF USEPRIVACY POLICYSITEMAP

OTHER PAGES WORTH EXPLORING
Banned Book ListOnline Reading GroupTop 10 Atheism Books

Copyright © BookTalk.org 2002-2019. All rights reserved.
Display Pagerank